Wilson barrels

[urbanrifleman]

$900 isn’t out of line if all you are doing is delivering a rifle to a smith. If he has to spend the time to buy the barrel (and you want a top of the line brand / mfg), pay the shipping and front the $ to do so and then collect sales tax on the barrel you are likely over $500 just for the tube. If the guy can do the entire job in 4 hrs that is $100 an hour and that is CHEAP if he has a ligit business with overhead and taxes and all of that jazz.

If a barrel indicates easily it takes me 4 hours or there about just to do the machine work on a barrel. Another hour worth of labor by the time I disassemble your rifle, screw new barrel on, mark barrel and put rifle back together. Never mind test firing or sighting or anything else you may want.

Remember if you are using a reputable qualified machinist you can live by the old adage of “Good, Fast, Cheap - chose two”…

Think of it this way… If you pay yourself $60 an hour and bill 2080 hours a year (40 hrs x 52 weeks) that is only $125K and that isn’t enough if you have to pay for your own health care or put enough in a retirement account to actually retire some day and still have some kind of comfortable existence…

The guys that painted my house made way more than $60 an hour. Way more. Electricians are $120 to $200. Plumbers are $150 to $250. A trip to the emergency room might cost you $10000 an hour. Car mechanics claim to charge $120 but they make way more than that, in reality.

Honestly, $100 per hour for barrel work is half what they should be charging. It's not 1988 anymore.

Machines are not cheap. Tools aren't cheap.

And think about this. Mess up one blank and you bought it. I learned that when I had my guitar store. You drop some guys Les Paul and snap it in two, you own that sucker. Then all your profit for two months is gone.

 

[rijndael]

Car mechanics claim to charge $120 but they make way more than that in reality.

It depends on the job, the area (rust belt?), and how they're paid. When you're new to the field, and you're flat rate, you're going to have a hard time beating flat rate time, job after job, until you're pretty seasoned. It's especially the case if you're working on a ton of different vehicle types.

For example, an exhaust manifold R&R may pay 2 hours. You get 2 hours of pay, but when all of the bolts snap off from corrosion, you're not probably going to beat 3-4 hours.

 

[DR_2297]

The guys that painted my house made way more than $60 an hour. Way more. Electricians are $120 to $200. Plumbers are $150 to $250. A trip to the emergency room might cost you $10000 an hour. Car mechanics claim to charge $120 but they make way more than that, in reality.

Honestly, $100 per hour for barrel work is half what they should be charging. It's not 1988 anymore.

Machines are not cheap. Tools aren't cheap.

And think about this. Mess up one blank and you bought it. I learned that when I had my guitar store. You drop some guys Les Paul and snap it in two, you own that sucker. Then all your profit for two months is gone.

Yes there are a ton of facets to this whole gig that people don’t recognize. Now that I do this as a second job, legitimately, the costs and time that nickel and dime me to death are aggravating when just trying to earn enough to justify doing it.

There is also the old adage that if 20% of your customers don’t think you are too expensive then you aren’t charging enough…

James Root
10X Engineering

 

[BoydAllen]

Many barrelmakers do not actually lap their barrels; they polish them. Lapping denotes the use of a lap, (usually cast of lead but I have also seen laps made with 5 minute epoxy) and a lapping compound. Polishing uses a patch, a bob, or fine steel wool charged with lapping or grinding compound. Both will affect change in the surface finish. Lapping will do this while, at the same, it will cut on the high spots and not the low spots. In other words lapping allows one to improve dimensional uniformity while also achieving the desired surface finish. The use of a resilient polishing bob, and the same compound, will polish the surface finish, but will perpetuate dimensional variations.
Polishing bobs which consist of hard leather washers, charged with lapping compound, kind of split the difference. They are less resilient than cloth, paper or steel wool but more than lead. In the end, the process is determined by what you want to accomplish. A lap alters dimensions and finish, a polishing bob alters finish. WH

Name me one premium American barrel maker that polishes their barrels in the manner you described.

 

[LVLAaron]

$900 isn’t out of line if all you are doing is delivering a rifle to a smith. If he has to spend the time to buy the barrel (and you want a top of the line brand / mfg), pay the shipping and front the $ to do so and then collect sales tax on the barrel you are likely over $500 just for the tube. If the guy can do the entire job in 4 hrs that is $100 an hour and that is CHEAP if he has a ligit business with overhead and taxes and all of that jazz.

If a barrel indicates easily it takes me 4 hours or there about just to do the machine work on a barrel. Another hour worth of labor by the time I disassemble your rifle, screw new barrel on, mark barrel and put rifle back together. Never mind test firing or sighting or anything else you may want.

Remember if you are using a reputable qualified machinist you can live by the old adage of “Good, Fast, Cheap - chose two”…

Think of it this way… If you pay yourself $60 an hour and bill 2080 hours a year (40 hrs x 52 weeks) that is only $125K and that isn’t enough if you have to pay for your own health care or put enough in a retirement account to actually retire some day and still have some kind of comfortable existence…

That's exactly how I see it. It takes me 3-4 hours to do a barrel. Polishing, checking/verifying the action is the way it should be, writing everything down, engraving, polishing, and a little shop cleanup... All that time adds up. I think 400 for the labor itself is pretty fair, especially if someone is bringing me a 700 that needs to have the factory barrel removed . That's a 100 dollar job no matter what day of the week it is.

I charge less than that for the guys that go through 2-3 barrels a year. I know they're going to bring me a totally stripped premium action and probably 2 barrels.

 

[Jerry S]

Just so we’re clear, the 900 was for a shouldered prefit.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Shooting mostly PRS type matches now, I go through about 4 barrels a year. The last one 1 ordered from a top PRS gunsmith cost me $900 + shipping. I decided that’s too much for me.
I ordered a nut barrel in 6 dasher from Bradly as a test. Paid $400 with muzzle threading for my suppressor.
I’m betting I can’t tell the difference shooting off a rooftop or cattle gate. I’ll share my thoughts on the Wilson after I get some time behind it.

Looks pretty good to me. Chamber looks awesome too.

 

[DShortt]

Just so we’re clear, the 900 was for a shouldered prefit.

From what source? Your 'smith who knows what you need because he kept records or a 'bargin' off a web site?

 

[Jerry S]

Here is my initial review of this barrel after 210 rounds fired.

The machining and bore looked just as good as any other barrel I’ve scoped. I’m admittedly not an expert but I’ve looked at enough to say I didn’t identify any issues.
My method of determining the match worthiness of a barrel will probably seem odd to most, but I’ve found it very reliable in assuring me of 1 thing; the barrel is not the limiting factor when I show up to a match.
First is the 10 shot clean routine everyone is familiar with. The Wilson showed no copper after shot 7. This is inline with most other quality barrels.
I then shoot a series of 10 shot groups cleaning between each series. 2 fouling shots then 10 for a group. I use 33.2 varget with a 105 hybrid jumping .050. This load has always shot well in every Dasher I’ve had. I am looking for 2 things. The groups and SDs to progressively improve. Once SDs reach single digits I know the barrel has sped up and stabilized. I then adjust the load to tighten the group if necessary.
Most barrels achieve this between 50-100 shots.
This barrel achieved it after 58. Pic included shot right to left. I didn’t measure but the last group looks really close to 1/4 moa.

These were shot from a ‘bench’ (2 sawhorses and a piece of plywood) with bipod and rear squeeze bag. Pic also included.

Last I shoot at 800 yards at a local range to verify I’m holding close to 1/2moa vertical. 1/2 moa at distance with bipod, squeeze bad, and scope on 16 power is the limit of my ability. The 800 targets were out so I had to settle for 600. Pic included.



This barrel has performed just as good as any I’ve had, and better than most. I know that this Wilson from Urban Rifleman will not limit me in any way, and cost less than half what I was paying.
Great work Bradly.

 

[Jerry S]

From what source? Your 'smith who knows what you need because he kept records or a 'bargin' off a web site?

I wouldn’t call it a bargain. These barrels are run in batches on a CnC. Bartlein if it matters.
And no this smith has never had my action.

 

[Jerry S]

Forgot to add in the SD numbers for the final 10 shot group.

 

[Fast14riot]

$900 is some sticker shock, but some shops charge equal amounts for chamber and muzzle threading (which BR and F don't use) so it makes sense to me.

For PRS a 1/4 moa load and gun in the hands of a 1/2 moa shooter in compromised positions can do very well. Its a tough game, but its also scored on the curve, percent of best shooter that day. It is a very different game than bench, belly or 3 position shooting.

A good button barrel has never let me down in F/class. Only difference I ever saw was number of match grade accurate rounds before degrading. They just don't last as long as cut barrels. But, they are cheaper. So cost per accurate round fired ends up nearly the same. Some of us need to pay attention to the bottom line more than others to stay in the game, so even though a shouldered cut barrel may last longer we may just not have the extra cash at the time or we lose half a season.