Wildcat ?s

[Dusty Stevens]

I always just say piercing a primer or blowing a primer. I know what people say is the correct term but who cares if nobody understands it? If i say blow a primer there is nobody at any level of reloading that doesnt know what im talking about but theres very few except those that have been scolded on a forum know what blanking is. I just try to keep it simple since im a simple guy

 

[deadduck357]

I always just say piercing a primer or blowing a primer. I know what people say is the correct term but who cares if nobody understands it? If i say blow a primer there is nobody at any level of reloading that doesnt know what im talking about but theres very few except those that have been scolded on a forum know what blanking is. I just try to keep it simple since im a simple guy

Makes sense to me.

 

[alinwa]

Why the term "blanking"?

I now understand from you and others here on this thread that getting the bolt Bushed is the solution to the problem we're encountering but with ongoing tests and a 6 week wait time that will have to be addressed later. Hopefully for now thicker primers will allow further development.

A buddy showed me a bolt out of his Defiance action yesterday and compared it to a stock 700 - BIG difference in firing pin hole size.

Because when a primer cup gets a hole in it the hole is "blanked" not pierced. It's a metal working term. In short, "piercing" most often describes the act of shoving a pointed object thru a metal surface...... like perforating the top of a coffee can using an icepick, maybe to give some air to the nightcrawlers or the kitten you're storing inside. This act removes no material and leaves sharp shards of metal hanging out on the side opposite the entrance of the piercing tool.

"Blanking" on the other hand is SHEARING the metal, punching out a "blank" of the metal and leaving a fairly clean hole. The old "penny slugs" and/or the slugs you pop out of an electrical box are blanks.


Generally the liddle discs of primer cup material (correctly termed "blanks") end up inside the bolt body where they've been blown by the gas pressure which created them. It's just like using a leather punch to make the holes in a belt..... if you just poke an awl thru or pierce the holes they close back up and you can't hardly find 'em but if you punch them out with a circular cutter you end up with a clean hole for the prong or hook to engage.

To further complicate the issue, in some industrial operations "piercing" does in fact refer to metal removal, NOT just "poking a hole with a pointed punch" but generally in the firearms industry the term "blanking" is used to describe what happens when gas pressure shoves out a 'blank' of primer cup material.

 

[alinwa]

And BTW....... those little 'blanks' of primer cup are death on Jewell triggers. They go back and hit the "firing pin block" (called the "sear" in most diagrams, but NOT ) slamming it down and bending or breaking one or both transfer bars leading down to the actual sear......

in short, blank primers on a Jewell and you'll be sending it back to be repaired (often called "fixed")

LOL

al

 

[alinwa]

And if you ask me why I prefer the term "repaired" over the more popular "fixed"

I promise, I won't answer!

 

[KMart]

And if you ask me why I prefer the term "repaired" over the more popular "fixed"

My definition.
You have the cat "fixed". Still does what they do but doesn't have all functions.
You have your vehicle "repaired". The vehicle goes back to normal operations.

 

[fguffey]

Yeahh, no...I won't be trustin' ya

That is fine with me, you can trust someone that suggest the primer is designed to bridge the hole in the bolt face; that does not work on my rifles because of the spring. If the spring will not support the pressure the dent in the primer is reversed. When the dent is reversed a hole appears.

And then there is something that happens between pulling the trigger and the bullet leaving the barrels reloaders do not understand. One is the position of the firing pin, no one measures before and again after.

F. Guffey

 

[deadduck357]

Because when a primer cup gets a hole in it the hole is "blanked" not pierced. It's a metal working term. In short, "piercing" most often describes the act of shoving a pointed object thru a metal surface...... like perforating the top of a coffee can using an icepick, maybe to give some air to the nightcrawlers or the kitten you're storing inside. This act removes no material and leaves sharp shards of metal hanging out on the side opposite the entrance of the piercing tool.

"Blanking" on the other hand is SHEARING the metal, punching out a "blank" of the metal and leaving a fairly clean hole. The old "penny slugs" and/or the slugs you pop out of an electrical box are blanks.


Generally the liddle discs of primer cup material (correctly termed "blanks") end up inside the bolt body where they've been blown by the gas pressure which created them. It's just like using a leather punch to make the holes in a belt..... if you just poke an awl thru or pierce the holes they close back up and you can't hardly find 'em but if you punch them out with a circular cutter you end up with a clean hole for the prong or hook to engage.

To further complicate the issue, in some industrial operations "piercing" does in fact refer to metal removal, NOT just "poking a hole with a pointed punch" but generally in the firearms industry the term "blanking" is used to describe what happens when gas pressure shoves out a 'blank' of primer cup material.

I'm new to reloading so terms like "piercing" is simple and common understanding but I do appreciate you defining "blanking" as I had no clue but do now. Much thanks.

 

[alinwa]

And BTW....... those little 'blanks' of primer cup are death on Jewell triggers. They go back and hit the "firing pin block" (called the "sear" in most diagrams, but NOT ) slamming it down and bending or breaking one or both transfer bars leading down to the actual sear......

in short, blank primers on a Jewell and you'll be sending it back to be repaired (often called "fixed")

LOL

al

I just realized that I was hideously imprecise here....... I said "they go back and hit the "firing pin block" on thee Jewell trigger, wreaking havoc.

WRONG!!

They don't hit NUTTIN really, they just bing around like cherry pits (see what I did there Boy? .....'bing' - 'cherries'.... Bing Cherries...... it's a JOKE son, a joke I say....)

So we'll try again (for the not-guffeys)

The action of blanking out the liddle hunka' primer cup sends the FIRING PIN BACK with great force....... the firing pin strikes the firing pin block on it's way by which ratchets down smashing thee fambly jewells..... the disc of primer material just lodges somewhere's inside the bolt body.

Or trickles down into the trigger recesses

 

[fguffey]

I just realized that I was hideously imprecise here....... I said "they go back and hit the "firing pin block" on thee Jewell trigger, wreaking havoc.

And then when the hole appears there is the escape of hot, high pressure metal cutting gas escaping back through the punched hole in the primer. In the primers I use I find the primer is not made to handle the escaping gas, as a results the primer shows evidence of melting and again, there is the nose of the firing pin showing metal hot high pressure gas cutting and then there is the hole in the hole in the bolt. "hideously imprecise?" I believe you are making this stuff up.

F. Guffey

 

[alinwa]

If I owned a reloading supply company...... say like if my name was "Lee" or "Hornady" or "Redding" or "RCBS"....... or a powder company, with a name like "Hogdon, ir "IMR" or even if I was from another continent like "Vihtavouri", I'd be scared, very scared upon reading this forum........

"I have found the enemy, and it is us!"
Pogo

 

[deadduck357]

Hey I got a question that's not pertaining to this project but didn't want to start a new thread; and seeing I've already asked reloading questions here I know y'all can answer it.

I've read the terms "move shoulder back" and "move shoulder forward". In which directions are these referring to? My apologies for my ignorance.

 

[alinwa]

Hey I got a question that's not pertaining to this project but didn't want to start a new thread; and seeing I've already asked reloading questions here I know y'all can answer it.

I've read the terms "move shoulder back" and "move shoulder forward". In which directions are these referring to? My apologies for my ignorance.

Remember, THERE IS ONLY ONE DUMB QUESTION!!!!! and that is the one you didn't ask.

Picture it with the case IN THE GUN..... "moving the shoulder forward" is moving it away from you, LENGTHENING the case body.

Whereas "moving the shoulder back" would be moving it toward you, SHORTENING the case body.

Unless your name is "FGuffey" in which case, the shoulder STAYS WHERE IT IS!!! And the universe moves fore or aft temporo-spatially to compensate since't the shoulder is immobile in time and space.

 

[deadduck357]

Remember, THERE IS ONLY ONE DUMB QUESTION!!!!! and that is the one you didn't ask.

Picture it with the case IN THE GUN..... "moving the shoulder forward" is moving it away from you, LENGTHENING the case body.

Whereas "moving the shoulder back" would be moving it toward you, SHORTENING the case body.

Unless your name is "FGuffey" in which case, the shoulder STAYS WHERE IT IS!!! And the universe moves fore or aft temporo-spatially to compensate since't the shoulder is immobile in time and space.

That's what I thought but when reading here I wasn't sure which direction people where referring to. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[alinwa]

That's what I thought but when reading here I wasn't sure which direction people where referring to. Thanks for the clarification.

OK...... now that we've a reference frame of "in the gun"....... here's some more fun.

The case mouth is the very FRONT of the case, closest to the muzzle.
The case head is the very BACK of the case, closest to the butt
The case neck is of course between the shoulder and the case mouth
The case body is between the shoulder and the head (or base)

LOL

 

[6MMsteve]

Guffey is the Mandela Effect

 

[fguffey]

I've read the terms "move shoulder back" and "move shoulder forward".

It is impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has case body support. I understand it sounds cool; "I bump the shoulder back" with absolutely not knowing what it means to 'bump' and no one on this form has ever seen a case with the shoulder moved back with the exception of the only reloader that has carried out test and experiments. Not my fault but there is not one member on this forum that knows where to start.

Why do they talk so tacky? I do not know but they have no way of getting out of it.

F. Guffey

 

[deadduck357]

It is impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has case body support. I understand it sounds cool; "I bump the shoulder back" with absolutely not knowing what it means to 'bump' and no one on this form has ever seen a case with the shoulder moved back with the exception of the only reloader that has carried out test and experiments. Not my fault but there is not one member on this forum that knows where to start.

Why do they talk so tacky? I do not know but they have no way of getting out of it.

F. Guffey

Sorry for the confusion; I wasn't asking about "bumping".

 

[rebel]

Shoulders move, I'm pretty sure Mick has support.
It's a TERM. For God's sake leave it be. Like saying I really didn't take a step walking East to West because the Earth is rotating the opposite way. How did I get where I was going? Why am I tired? Ridiculous and I agree, the way you post guff is not conducive to teaching new folks. Why don't you just say "You don't know crap about reloading." in every possible thread. If no one here knows sh&t, and you do - why bother?
Looking forward to a picture of a really good target to back up your theories. If not -just hush.

 

[fguffey]

Sorry for the confusion; I wasn't asking about "bumping".

No confusion, reloaders hear a cute and catchy phrase and they take off with it changing everything. There was a tool that the manufacturer called a digital head space gage; reloaders got all giggly about it and some purchased them. I informed them the tool was a comparator and manufacturers of a similar tool sold (and still sell them) under the name 'dial indicator stand'.

I understand about the bumping part. Reloaders claim they can bump the shoulder back, and I have said that is impossible.

And then there is that other part about moving the shoulder forward. For most reloaders it is easier to talk tacky than it is to understand what is happening to the case between pulling the trigger and the bullet getting out the barrel.

F. Guffey