Wildcat ?s

[fguffey]

Never mind.

Case gets shorter, the case gets longer: It is not easy to keep up with but when wildcatting the case (almost) always gets shorter. And then there is that part that makes reloaders say; "HUH". The case gets shorter from the end of the neck to the case head but gets longer from the datum/shoulder to the casae head.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

Ok. Those not close to pearcing?

If I had primers that were close to piercing and or piercing I would check the firing pin spring (if it had one).

And then I look again and you said 'pearcing'.

The firing pin strikes the primer a dent appears, when pressure builds up in the case the pressure pushes the firing pin back and some of the dent conforms to the firing pin. If the spring will not prevent the pressure from pushing the firing pin back a hole in the primer appears. I know; to some that is some mind boggling stuff with all that high pressure and that little ol' firing pin and spring pushing against all that pressure.

F. Guffey

 

[deadduck357]

Case gets shorter, the case gets longer: It is not easy to keep up with but when wildcatting the case (almost) always gets shorter. And then there is that part that makes reloaders say; "HUH". The case gets shorter from the end of the neck to the case head but gets longer from the datum/shoulder to the casae head.

F. Guffey

They are all starting to get right. Some now after firing are just a tad short, some I'm trimming less than a hair. Coming along good. Next batch won't get trimmed so much.

 

[deadduck357]

If I had primers that were close to piercing and or piercing I would check the firing pin spring (if it had one).

And then I look again and you said 'pearcing'.

The firing pin strikes the primer a dent appears, when pressure builds up in the case the pressure pushes the firing pin back and some of the dent conforms to the firing pin. If the spring will not prevent the pressure from pushing the firing pin back a hole in the primer appears. I know; to some that is some mind boggling stuff with all that high pressure and that little ol' firing pin and spring pushing against all that pressure.

F. Guffey

Got some thicker primers to try next. Hopefully these will alleviate the cratering some. Will see.

 

[deadduck357]

This might be a helpful read for you and includes primer dimensions for most american rifle primers.
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

Wanna thank you for that link. Called James and he schooled me on primers, very helpful.

 

[deadduck357]

Dont know if youre using small or large rifle but i have good luck with the cci magnums and remington. Give one of those a try

Couldn't find any CCIs locally so I got some Rems. Thanks again.

 

[alinwa]

If I had primers that were close to piercing and or piercing I would check the firing pin spring (if it had one).

And then I look again and you said 'pearcing'.

The firing pin strikes the primer a dent appears, when pressure builds up in the case the pressure pushes the firing pin back and some of the dent conforms to the firing pin. If the spring will not prevent the pressure from pushing the firing pin back a hole in the primer appears. I know; to some that is some mind boggling stuff with all that high pressure and that little ol' firing pin and spring pushing against all that pressure.

F. Guffey

To all non-guffeys who read this stuff to learn please understand that while this liddle diatribe DOES mirror much of the garbage spewed by folks over the years, it isn't true.

Nor is it "mind-boggling stuff'........ just butt-ignorance.

The firing pin spring, strength or stiffness thereof has NOTHING to do with primers blanking.

(It's neither "pearcing" nor "piercing"....... it's BLANKING)

Primers blank when internal pressure exceeds the ability of the primer material to bridge the hole in the boltface, the hole where coincidentally the firing pin pops out.

For years folks' been sayin' "if you're piercing primers your firing pin spring may be getting weak"......

THINK people, THINK! Does anyone see the logic here??? ++300lb of force impinging on that disc of copper causing it to yield and the difference betwixt a 28lb firing pin spring and say a 21lber's gonna' somehow hold it back???

hellOOoo?

If you're blanking primers the answer is to get your bolt-face bushed for a smaller diameter firing pin hole. Basic bridge-building, rafter-spanning, joist-figgering, beam-spec'ing tech here......."If the span's too long for the load, DECREASE THE SPAN!!"

OK, rant off...... I guess I'm still in work mode. I'll go take a shower and a chill-pill.

 

[shortthroat]

I am surprised to find no mention of Cerrosafe to make a chamber cast. With that cast in hand, you can get all dimensions for your chamber and can then enter these measurements into Quickload in order to find some starting loads with various powders.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I am surprised to find no mention of Cerrosafe to make a chamber cast. With that cast in hand, you can get all dimensions for your chamber and can then enter these measurements into Quickload in order to find some starting loads with various powders.

what if youre using thicker brass and get more pressure? the outside of your case dimension says nothing about pressure.

 

[dellet]

what if youre using thicker brass and get more pressure? the outside of your case dimension says nothing about pressure.

It does when you use the program properly, and use both external case measurements and the internal volume.

 

[Dgd6mm]

It does when you use the program properly, and use both external case measurements and the internal volume.

I believe that is the point Dusty was making.

 

[fguffey]

I am surprised to find no mention of Cerrosafe to make a chamber cast. With that cast in hand, you can get all dimensions for your chamber and can then enter these measurements into Quickload in order to find some starting loads with various powders.

You found no mention of chamber cast? I believe there are many more reloaders that talk about chamber casting than there are reloaders that know how to cast.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

Primers blank when internal pressure exceeds the ability of the primer material to bridge the hole in the boltface, the hole where coincidentally the firing pin pops out.

I said it was a mind boggling thing; the material you speak of should never get back to the point it is bridging the hole in the bolt face but it is a guarantee if the pressure in the case overcomes the spring pressure a hole will appear in the primer.

I know; the spring could have 18 pounds of pressure against the firing pin, the pressure inside of the case could be 55,000 psi, and you should ask yourself; Self, how can that spring hold all of that pressure? So it is a balancing act determined by .7854.

F. Guffey

 

[alinwa]

I said it was a mind boggling thing; the material you speak of should never get back to the point it is bridging the hole in the bolt face but it is a guarantee if the pressure in the case overcomes the spring pressure a hole will appear in the primer.

I know; the spring could have 18 pounds of pressure against the firing pin, the pressure inside of the case could be 55,000 psi, and you should ask yourself; Self, how can that spring hold all of that pressure? So it is a balancing act determined by .7854.

F. Guffey

As I said the first time I tried a discourse with you on another forum, "you are weird sir"

Same Planet, Different Worlds


al




out

 

[fguffey]

As I said the first time I tried a discourse with you on another forum, "you are weird sir"

alinwa, If I tell you a chicken dips snuff, do not argue. All there is for you to catch that chicken. lift that chicken wings to determine which side it carries the can on, right or left.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

how can that spring hold all of that pressure?

alinwa, You do not know! that is not question; a mature adult would say, "I do not know?". And then others would simply say nothing.

F. Guffey

 

[hoz53]

alinwa, You do not know! that is not question; a mature adult would say, "I do not know?". And then others would simply say nothing.

F. Guffey

is it Felony?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

alinwa, If I tell you a chicken dips snuff, do not argue. All there is for you to catch that chicken. lift that chicken wings to determine which side it carries the can on, right or left.

F. Guffey

That is the first personable thing ive ever heard you say. It made me laugh for sure.

 

[alinwa]

alinwa, If I tell you a chicken dips snuff, do not argue. All there is for you to catch that chicken. lift that chicken wings to determine which side it carries the can on, right or left.

F. Guffey

Yeahh, no...I won't be trustin' ya ...... I've CAUGHT that chicken, a bunch of times. I done LIFTED them wangs......and found out it warn't even a chicken! It were a GRASSHOPPER!

Ya got's ta define the problem before ya' kin divine the answer...

 

[deadduck357]

(It's neither "pearcing" nor "piercing"....... it's BLANKING)

Primers blank when internal pressure exceeds the ability of the primer material to bridge the hole in the boltface, the hole where coincidentally the firing pin pops out.

If you're blanking primers the answer is to get your bolt-face bushed for a smaller diameter firing pin hole. Basic bridge-building, rafter-spanning, joist-figgering, beam-spec'ing tech here......."If the span's too long for the load, DECREASE THE SPAN!!"

Why the term "blanking"?

I now understand from you and others here on this thread that getting the bolt Bushed is the solution to the problem we're encountering but with ongoing tests and a 6 week wait time that will have to be addressed later. Hopefully for now thicker primers will allow further development.

A buddy showed me a bolt out of his Defiance action yesterday and compared it to a stock 700 - BIG difference in firing pin hole size.