Why a Persistent Lack of Gunsmiths?

[newgun]

My smith got fed up with dead beats not paying and now you pay about 80% before work starts. I for some reason the bill is smaller he can and will give the money back. On a build $1000. to start 50% withing 30 days and then the balance. (My build took 7 months or so waiting for the stock.) No more guns laying around. If you loose your job your truck blows up or what ever that's life we all have bad times why should that be someone ells worry? If you call and talk to him he will work it out. But when you just do the diapering act you loose.

 

[ARshuter]

As far as gunsmiths go, how many of you that are complaining would actually take someone who knew nothing about machining and teach them you're craft? Lets not forget that you're generation allowed schools to give up shop classes and what not were you learned your basic skills. My high school didn't/doesn't even have a wood shop let alone any type of metal shop.

I took on the task of trying to teach a younger fellow the skills of gunsmithing. His skill level was mostly in the automotive field. That said he couldn't even drill and tap a hole. He spent most of the day on the cell phone talking to his wife while she was at her job. When I told him" when you come in tomorrow I'm taking your cell phone and locking it in the gun safe until you leave" I never saw him again.

 

[wvuredneck09]

As far as gunsmiths go, how many of you that are complaining would actually take someone who knew nothing about machining and teach them you're craft? Lets not forget that you're generation allowed schools to give up shop classes and what not were you learned your basic skills. My high school didn't/doesn't even have a wood shop let alone any type of metal shop.

I took on the task of trying to teach a younger fellow the skills of gunsmithing. His skill level was mostly in the automotive field. That said he couldn't even drill and tap a hole. He spent most of the day on the cell phone talking to his wife while she was at her job. When I told him" when you come in tomorrow I'm taking your cell phone and locking it in the gun safe until you leave" I never saw him again.

Again I blame this blame on my parents generation. I was raised that you didn't answer phones at the dinner table and you didn't answer them at work either. In the case of an emergency I tell everyone they best call me multiple times and or leave a message which I will listen to while at work just in case. Their are kids that were raised right but to judge all young people by some, even the majority, would be like me judging that all of you parents did a poor job teaching your children respect and a work ethic. I'm sure that would raise several heated discussions . At the end of the day all I am getting at here is that the older generation needs to realize why my generation is screwed up instead of just b*tching about it. If more people would do that I would have some hope that we could as a society right some of the wrongs, especially for the next generation.

 

[boltman13]

Most of the members of this forum are serious shooters and/or competitors. We are willing to invest the time, money, and patience to get the rifle we want. We are a distinct minority among all gun owners. Most firearms owners are content to purchase a gun, use it now and then, perhaps get it repaired if it malfunctions or just buy a new one. Are there enough of us to support any more gunsmiths? As the current crop of smiths retire will the demand for high quality work be enough to justify a younger person investing the time, money and risk to enter the trade? Remember we are also moving on in age. Is there enough demand in the pipe line for the next generation to make even a decent living as a gunsmith? I sure hope so.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

As far as gunsmiths go, how many of you that are complaining would actually take someone who knew nothing about machining and teach them you're craft? Lets not forget that you're generation allowed schools to give up shop classes and what not were you learned your basic skills. My high school didn't/doesn't even have a wood shop let alone any type of metal shop.

I took on the task of trying to teach a younger fellow the skills of gunsmithing. His skill level was mostly in the automotive field. That said he couldn't even drill and tap a hole. He spent most of the day on the cell phone talking to his wife while she was at her job. When I told him" when you come in tomorrow I'm taking your cell phone and locking it in the gun safe until you leave" I never saw him again.

Again I blame this blame on my parents generation. I was raised that you didn't answer phones at the dinner table and you didn't answer them at work either. In the case of an emergency I tell everyone they best call me multiple times and or leave a message which I will listen to while at work just in case. Their are kids that were raised right but to judge all young people by some, even the majority, would be like me judging that all of you parents did a poor job teaching your children respect and a work ethic. I'm sure that would raise several heated discussions . At the end of the day all I am getting at here is that the older generation needs to realize why my generation is screwed up instead of just b*tching about it. If more people would do that I would have some hope that we could as a society right some of the wrongs, especially for the next generation.

Perhaps I am one of those stupid parents that don't know chit from a PB&J sammich but to me you come across as someone with a bit of 'attitude' or a 'chip' on your shoulder that feels someone or somebody 'owes you' something? Whether it is their time or what I don't know!

#1-If you aren't one of the lazy ones or the shoe doesn't fit than why insinuate that those who posted previously are/were referring to you?

#2- Perhaps your parents 'owe you' something but surely nobody else does so don't lump all of us strangers into the same category and name call! I had a 9wk course my freshman year from a program with a bunch of mobile homes moved around from small school to small school. That particular unit contained a Emco V10 lathe, a small mill, metal brake, welder, cutting torch etc., so about 30 minutes at most of lathe time and the rest self taught because it sparked an interest in me. In other words I took it upon myself when I was over 30 and loved firearms and machineing so combined the 2 on my own, nothing expected from anyone but ME!!! In other words I bought myself a used lathe in my 30's when I could afford it finally and then another and another until I had a couple nice ones and taught myself what I wanted to do with them!!

#3-My son(grew up with his mother and 2 other dads') and 2 step daughters and 1 stepson knew/know every damn thing and weren't afraid to tell me so! Seems you find it pretty easy to lay blame on the prior generations! Don't suppose video games, schools teaching kids that they have an opinion and not to be afraid to give it, cell phones, expecting $20 worth of pay for 5 minutes worth of work(because they are special and should start at the top) and feeling they are abused because they don't have the nicest set of wheels in the parking lot are surely the fault of parents mortgaged to their nipples? Your generation darn sure didn't get a lot of what they say/do/act from their parents!!! Try piers, schools, media, and perhaps other adults but not necessarily THEIR parents!

Again, don't blame those who have made comments here for YOUR situation and DON'T take for granted that you are/were the intended recipient of their accusations and comments!!!!!! If the shoe don't fit then don't treat others like sh*t!!!(sorry, my Johnny Cocoran moment)
Teach yourself and don't come across like you are OWED an education or a skill!

Good Luck in the future and Please keep your ethics and morales and thank your parents for their efforts. Feel privileged that you are what you are and don't feel 'targeted' by the above comments!!!!!

Respectfully,
Dennis
PS-Hope this is interpreted as intended, it is not meant to bash or belittle, just don't lump everyone older into the same category!

 

[ARshuter]

Dennis,
If I'm reading what wvuredneck09 is saying correctly it's our generations fault that we wanted a better life for our kids. So like the idiots we worked 12 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week to give our kids everything they wanted. STOP IT they don't want our help they want to get up at 4 oclock everyday go to work and get called everything but white and American for minimum wages, just so they can learn a trade.
Alan
(terrible parent)

wvuredneck09, Heres a thought. If you want to learn a trade. Put down the ipod cell phone tablet xbox controller go ask mom and dad for $20.00 to put gas in the car they bought you and go see a recruiter so you can learn any trade you want.
Now I have to go to work so my 20 year old can sleep till noon.


Alan
(terrible parent)

 

[shortgrass]

Most of the members of this forum are serious shooters and/or competitors. We are willing to invest the time, money, and patience to get the rifle we want. We are a distinct minority among all gun owners. Most firearms owners are content to purchase a gun, use it now and then, perhaps get it repaired if it malfunctions or just buy a new one. Are there enough of us to support any more gunsmiths? As the current crop of smiths retire will the demand for high quality work be enough to justify a younger person investing the time, money and risk to enter the trade? Remember we are also moving on in age. Is there enough demand in the pipe line for the next generation to make even a decent living as a gunsmith? I sure hope so.

At this point in time, all the 2 year gunsmithing schools have "waiting lists" for enrollment, some two to three years in advance. More schools are starting up. The part time schools are full and , I'd bet, the "through the mail /on-line" are doing a booming business. I attended MCCs' two year program '91-'93 (and graduated) and the fear then was the lack of enrollees to keep the program alive. I believe 24 started and 18 or so graduated. There were quit a few who didn't seem to want to apply themselves to the curriculum (lots of whining about stockmaking and bluing), younger guys, mostly. Out of the graduates maybe only 4-5 actually went into the trade. Several of those have since 'moved on' to other employment (greener pastures/less BS than running a business). With the current "wish" to become a "gunsmith" by so many, I expect there will be plenty. Of what quality is anyones guess. There will always be a few who stand above the rest.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Dennis,
If I'm reading what wvuredneck09 is saying correctly it's our generations fault that we wanted a better life for our kids. So like the idiots we worked 12 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week to give our kids everything they wanted. STOP IT they don't want our help they want to get up at 4 oclock everyday go to work and get called everything but white and American for minimum wages, just so they can learn a trade.
Alan
(terrible parent)

wvuredneck09, Heres a thought. If you want to learn a trade. Put down the ipod cell phone tablet xbox controller go ask mom and dad for $20.00 to put gas in the car they bought you and go see a recruiter so you can learn any trade you want.
Now I have to go to work so my 20 year old can sleep till noon.


Alan
(terrible parent)

Alan
I took it the same way you do in that he feels his fellow senior co-workers OWE him the knowledge and experience they acquired working their arse off for years and he wants to acquire in days what they know and at no cost!!!!!

An example, my twin brother called last night from western MT. He is in the refrigeration/restaurant supply business and they are ALWAYS trying to find good help! He had a call from a 27yr old from KS the day before wanting to move as his wife is or wants to go to medical school in their town. He has about 3.5yrs experience and they offered him $27/hr to start. His comment, "well, I am worth more than that so guess I could start and then we can have a serious conversation about wages"!!! Brother says "for where we are $27 is $5 an hour more than we normally pay for someone with only 3.5yrs experience"! He than asks "well, how long before I can become service manager"? Brother says "I am going to say 30yrs because that is how long it took me and I had to start the company to do it"!! Like he says, they want to start at the top and work up. Also 8 till 5, no after hours, no weekends or holidays and of course full medical, vehicle to drive back and forth to work and of course moving expense! They just cannot find anyone with the dedication or work ethics that they can depend on. Most leave within 2yrs because of the hours etc. Like he says, the only ones applying are those who cannot and have not held a job anywhere else for any length of time. There isn't enough customers or the economy in western MT to pay the $50-$60/hr that some claim they can get in LA, Chicago, Denver etc. Majority either have issues with customers or authority, have drinking problems and not dependable. He tells them, "you have to WANT TO live in western MT because you like the country, not because you think you are gonna get rich"!! He has some pretty pathetic stories about some of the employees they have had or have applied. Almost unbelievable!!!!

Like a gent that bought a new truck and drove from Phoenix to Kalispell claiming he had reefer experience. After 4 days of riding with another employee they told him they couldn't use him. He finally admitted his 'reefer' experience was reclaiming freon at the landfill and he thought he could "wing it" until he learned how to do super markets etc!!! LOL

My son is 29 and basically has NO skills!!!!! Don't dare try and tell him anything either or he won't call or visit for a year so I just keep my mouth shut!!!! Pretty depressing and disheartening! At least now I know it is MY fault as a Parent because that is what the OP says!

 

[nichols7666]

I believe it something we may have done to ourselves. Minor repairs springs and extracters can be changed easy enough and are available where they have just about everything. Major repairs are also costly repairs and with just about everything going modular it is easier to replace a part verses repairing. Besides most of us in this sport also enjoy doing our own work, and take pride in doing just that. This is honestly just my opinion I have no facts or stats to support it, just personnel experience.

 

[wvuredneck09]

Okay, we are way off subject here and people are clearly taking things a bit too personal so I'm out, you guys can bash the younger generation all day and not see that your generation played any role in why we are who we are (and not all of us fit in you're broad nets, just as not all of you fit in my thoughts on the reason). With that being said I don't think anyone owes me anything, especially my mother, but don't bitch that I can't/don't want to/won't due something if you're not willing to teach me (that's all I was getting at and didn't mean to direct it at anyone on here). Also I don't recall saying anyone on here was a bad parent but some of you certainly cast a wide net when it goes the other way. The facts are that while some of you were throwing a fit on here I WAS at work, I don't rely on my parents for much of anything other than advice. I have a fulltime job, a house that is nearly 50% paid off, my own car that is paid off, etc. etc. I don't have an Xbox (never even played one), no I-phone for me either, or tablet for that matter because those things just take over your life, I prefer to go out shooting when I'm not getting called out to work or sleeping in until 6:30am . As for working so damn hard and shoving it in peoples faces to give your kids everything they want (you're own words) that was kind of the point I was trying to make about not teaching a work ethic. I apologize to those who started working at the age of 6 as I'm sure I'll here from them but I started mowing lawns at 12 so I could buy the things I wanted instead of just getting them, also so I could pay for college because my mother couldn't. Getting worked hard even for minimum wage, which I have, isn't a bad thing, makes me appreciate the good job I have now. If anyone else, including those who already have would like to bash me more from this point forward please PM me so that this thread doesn't go further down the gutter and end up getting closed. I have already taken some of the wonderful advice thrown my way so far and got my South Bend, How to Run a Lathe in the mail today. I can only hope that once I teach myself I don't think like some that and pass on what I learned. Just because someone made the first wheel doesn't mean the next guy should figure it out for himself.

In closing and unsubscribing to this thread I would like to also point a few things out:

SDwhirlwind in particular needs to practice what he preaches "Again, don't blame those who have made comments here for YOUR situation and DON'T take for granted that you are/were the intended recipient of their accusations and comments!!!!!! If the shoe don't fit then don't treat others like sh*t!!!"

and please quit commenting on you're son, this isn't a doctor Phil forum to talk about you family issues. I'm sure he and others in your family would prefer to not have their dad bad mouth them to everyone.

Nichols7666 I think you are spot on for a lot of the problem, for non serious target shooters a factory savage/remington/tikka/etc. can be just fine and be maintained/customized with little more than a few parts off the internet and a you-tube video or 3

 

[Hombre0321]

wvuredneck09 , Well said !!!!

Roland

 

[SDWhirlwind]

In closing and unsubscribing to this thread I would like to also point a few things out:

SDwhirlwind in particular needs to practice what he preaches "Again, don't blame those who have made comments here for YOUR situation and DON'T take for granted that you are/were the intended recipient of their accusations and comments!!!!!! If the shoe don't fit then don't treat others like sh*t!!!" Your welcome for wasting my time, I tried to make a point in limited context without it becoming a short story and trying to keep it from being taken personal and HOPING it would be taken as intended, I failed again as a parent and role model!

and please quit commenting on you're son, this isn't a doctor Phil forum to talk about you family issues. I'm sure he and others in your family would prefer to not have their dad bad mouth them to everyone. I surely don't need someone who ISN'T a parent or physcologist telling me what I can and cannot say about my son! Typical reaction from the younger generation, don't speak the truth, tell me what 'I WANT TO HEAR', not 'WHAT I NEED TO HEAR'! I wasn't singling him out in particular but using his ethics and age in general

You're welcome, I guarantee I won't make any attempt to help you in the future. I Might be a reason the other worthless old bastards that are your co-workers won't help you, attitude???? Done!

Respectfully,
Dennis

 

[moorepower]

I am a small business owner, but not a gunsmith. I have a few more reasons. OSHA, BATF, EPA. I can't imagine starting a shop with the knowledge that you are basically one stroke of a pen away from going out of business, oh wait, so can I ! When OSHA left my shop, I had to write a check equal to 3 years net profit, and only 1 violation was anything remotely related to employee safety, and the rest was more not doting I's and crossing T's. This violation was for lack of a chip guard on a drill press, that literally had not been used in 8 years, as I bought it to make some equipment before I opened my shop. When you have a constant threat from the govt. that is such anti small business and esp. anti gun, I really don't wonder why a bank would not want to loan money to ANY gun related operation. It is one thing to be worried about having customers knocking at the door, or wanting to get paid for work, but quite another for big brother to come knocking at your door, or bashing it in if they feel like it. Gosh, I wonder why the economy is not recovering??? FYI, good help of any age is almost impossible to find. I went from 3 full time and 2 part time to 3 part time, and I will NEVER go back to full time unless their are DRASTIC changes in regulation. I will dismount now.

 

[butchlambert]

Back on the subject. Several years ago I started a company called The Barrelman. Most of you know about it. I sold 1000-1500 barrels a year, primarily to gunsmiths through out the USA and Australia. The only ones that are doing pretty good have retirement pay from a previous job or a wife with a good job. I know many that build rifles in the $25,000 range. Sounds like a lot, but even though they do just fair, they paid for it with many years building their reps. A whole bunch of those guys still live in prefab houses. Now don't take that the wrong way, just saying that very few make what I call a decent living.
I would suggest that a person,young or old, take community college machining classes in your spare time. It is hard to do as most of you have family responsibilities. A good machine shop job pays more than gunsmithing. I would then do a little gun work on the side and only if you are able to get a FFL. After you have gained experience you will be able to make the decision if gunsmithing is your deal.
Yes, I sold The Barrelman to Jerry Stiller a few years ago. Jerry sold it to the present owner and I think he is doing well. I believe WVredneck and sdwhirlwind have valid arguments.

 

[Parsons]

Most of the members of this forum are serious shooters and/or competitors. We are willing to invest the time, money, and patience to get the rifle we want. We are a distinct minority among all gun owners. Most firearms owners are content to purchase a gun, use it now and then, perhaps get it repaired if it malfunctions or just buy a new one. Are there enough of us to support any more gunsmiths? As the current crop of smiths retire will the demand for high quality work be enough to justify a younger person investing the time, money and risk to enter the trade? Remember we are also moving on in age. Is there enough demand in the pipe line for the next generation to make even a decent living as a gunsmith? I sure hope so.

At this point in time, all the 2 year gunsmithing schools have "waiting lists" for enrollment, some two to three years in advance. More schools are starting up. The part time schools are full and , I'd bet, the "through the mail /on-line" are doing a booming business. I attended MCCs' two year program '91-'93 (and graduated) and the fear then was the lack of enrollees to keep the program alive. I believe 24 started and 18 or so graduated. There were quit a few who didn't seem to want to apply themselves to the curriculum (lots of whining about stockmaking and bluing), younger guys, mostly. Out of the graduates maybe only 4-5 actually went into the trade. Several of those have since 'moved on' to other employment (greener pastures/less BS than running a business). With the current "wish" to become a "gunsmith" by so many, I expect there will be plenty. Of what quality is anyones guess. There will always be a few who stand above the rest.

Shortgrass I am in gunsmithing school at MCC right now. There is a wait list right now for the school. When I first signed up I was number 97 on the list. Thirty people just graduated a couple weeks ago and each of them have different ways they want to go in the business or completely in a different direction. I know some that don't want to go work for a manufacturer because they think they should be making more than x amount an hour. Some took jobs with manufacturers due to learning more and working their way up. One of my good friends doesn't even think he wants to work with guns now even though he loves them and is a very good competitive pistol shooter. There are a few that got good jobs but they seem to be ones that put in extra work seeking out a job. The school gives a great basis for you to build off of. How many of these guys are actually going to try and learn enough more to build the guns that the people here would pay the money for I am not sure. Bluing is still complained about. The long hours polishing the metal and then working with the chemicals I heard a lot of complaints about.

My point is even though there is a wait list to get into the school many people drop from the wait list and others go through the program and then decide there isn't enough money in it for them to see worth pursuing. I am hoping that enough of us take the risk and pursue a career in this field and can continue building guns of the same quality that are being built once the guys with great reputations retire.

 

[butchlambert]

Parsons,
I know of a custom builder that charges $1000 to polish a custom before bluing.

 

[shortgrass]

There's better money in the 'higher end' work. About anybody can fit and screw a custom tube on a custom action and stick it into a McMillian stock. I guess I shouldn't say "anybody", 'cause I've sure seen some mucked up stuff. The point is, the guys that can do that 'higher end' work, first class bluing (hot or slow rust), make wood stocks of fine quality, real engravers, or make a quality repair on an English double come out ahead. Once you're known for work like that, you get to deal with fewer idiots, ya' still meet 'um, but you no longer have to deal with 'um. I've made more, per job, making a quality mechanical repair on a AyA than I can doing a thread, chamber & crown job. And, the guys who bring that kind of work have like minded friends with expensive tastes, too. Those are the ones you want to work for! They aren't always trying to talk you down in price, most are just glad to have found someone who can do the work the way it should be done. I did alot of "extra" while at MCC, and glad I did. I was 35 at the time and was paying my own way, those who tried to do as little as possible seemed to be on someone else's 'dime'. Wayne's a heck of a good gunsmith and an excellent instructor, and the dept. head now I believe. He can show ya' how to do that 'high end' work. Get all ya' can while you're there, Parsons. If you'll let them, they'll train you to become ACGG material, after you've gotten a few years experience after graduation.

 

[spitfire_er]

I have thought about jumping into the gunsmithing trade full time, but when I sit down and do the math it just doesn't add up for me.

I'm still a fairly young guy, 29, but I have been fortunate enough to work under 2 different Master gunsmiths for the past 7 years part time. I've never really gotten anything handed to me and knew that if I wanted to make it in life I had to take the initiative and do it myself. I've always been a hands on person and liked building things and was also fortunate enough to grow up as a kid with a grandfather that had his own hobby metal shop (I guess a little more tooling than a hobby shop). Although he had a lathe I never learned to use it until I started doing gunsmithing work. I started doing gun work when I met my wife and met her grandfather the first smith I worked with. At this point he was about 80 and had been working on guns and building BR guns since the early 60's, so I learned the basics and some of the tricks to first off building a rifle, and second off all the little tricks and techniques that are needed in making or fixing rifles to do what they are suppose to do and make them shoot good. I didn't get paid to do any of this, but he did allow and encourage me to build my own stuff and charged me "maintenance time" around the shop and a little bit of $ here and there for use or some of the tools. Basically, I would fix stuff around the shop for him, and he would let me build my own stuff and teach me how to do it. After a while he had me doing customer work because I was "free" labor.

I did that for 3-4 years until I got an actual paying job $8/hr doing part time work with another smith. This whole time I was working a regular full time job doing construction after I got my BS in Biology, because I couldn't find a job in my field, and I needed to pay bills. From the second guy which I still work for today part time, I learned more things with better tooling and how to run a milling machine. I also did and still do a lot of repairs on the not so fun stuff, like old .22's and shotguns, along with putting on a lot of muzzle brakes and D&T a bunch of stuff. I've since gotten a raise, because I can do just about anything in his shop, but every time I find something I don't know, I do a couple things. Ask if he has time to show me, or more often than not, research it and do it to my own stuff.

I guess long story short, I took it upon myself to learn all this stuff and was fortunate enough to find a few people that were willing to teach me. I really get a kick out of building target rifles and custom hunting rigs. However doing all the not so glamorous repair work is where most of the $$$$ comes from in most shops.

I don't think I'll be opening a shop anytime soon because I will be going to chiropractic school at the end of the year, but I do plan to have my own shop in the future to do my own work and I will build stuff for friends and family. This is how both of the guys I worked with started. It was a hobby, then turned into part time, then they got so busy that it turned into a full time business. None of the smiths I know that own their own shop started out right off the bat doing full time smithing.

My next project once I can afford it is metal engraving. I think that is just the neatest thing ever an I am more of a classic rifle type guy and love working with wood and steel. I don't like the idea of bolting a gun together. All my rifles I built have wood or laminate stocks other than one ruger 10/22 that I "bolted together" when I was 14 or so.

Anyways, I with student loans up to my eyeballs (which I pay unlike some grads) on top of everything else, I would need to make too much money a year to pay my bills and run the business. For me, it's not that I expect to make $xx,xxx a year in a job, I NEED to make $xx,xxx k to pay my bills and have a few bucks left over for savings, go out to eat once a month and take a trip to see family a few times a year. I didn't get a good paying job right out of college, but I have one now and am grateful for it.

Below is one of my latest projects. Nobody I know as done this. It is pewter caps and inlays like they use to do on old black powder rifles. Someone here mentioned it and I thought it would be cool. The guy I work for now saw it and wanted to know how I did it so I taught him. I've since put about 15 coats of finish on this stock and probably need another 15-20 more.

 

[Parsons]

Short grass I plan on doing more than the required amount of work. I won't have Wayne as a direct instructor as he is morning and I will be in the evening class. Wayne is now the department head and rumor is he is close to retiring but I am not sure how true that is. Have heard nothing but great things about Waynes work and to soak up anything I can from him. I am a little nervous about all the impatient customers wanting stuff right now and not wanting to pay X amount bc the gun is only worth x amount.

 

[butchlambert]

I have thought about jumping into the gunsmithing trade full time, but when I sit down and do the math it just doesn't add up for me.

I'm still a fairly young guy, 29, but I have been fortunate enough to work under 2 different Master gunsmiths for the past 7 years part time. I've never really gotten anything handed to me and knew that if I wanted to make it in life I had to take the initiative and do it myself. I've always been a hands on person and liked building things and was also fortunate enough to grow up as a kid with a grandfather that had his own hobby metal shop (I guess a little more tooling than a hobby shop). Although he had a lathe I never learned to use it until I started doing gunsmithing work. I started doing gun work when I met my wife and met her grandfather the first smith I worked with. At this point he was about 80 and had been working on guns and building BR guns since the early 60's, so I learned the basics and some of the tricks to first off building a rifle, and second off all the little tricks and techniques that are needed in making or fixing rifles to do what they are suppose to do and make them shoot good. I didn't get paid to do any of this, but he did allow and encourage me to build my own stuff and charged me "maintenance time" around the shop and a little bit of $ here and there for use or some of the tools. Basically, I would fix stuff around the shop for him, and he would let me build my own stuff and teach me how to do it. After a while he had me doing customer work because I was "free" labor.

I did that for 3-4 years until I got an actual paying job $8/hr doing part time work with another smith. This whole time I was working a regular full time job doing construction after I got my BS in Biology, because I couldn't find a job in my field, and I needed to pay bills. From the second guy which I still work for today part time, I learned more things with better tooling and how to run a milling machine. I also did and still do a lot of repairs on the not so fun stuff, like old .22's and shotguns, along with putting on a lot of muzzle brakes and D&T a bunch of stuff. I've since gotten a raise, because I can do just about anything in his shop, but every time I find something I don't know, I do a couple things. Ask if he has time to show me, or more often than not, research it and do it to my own stuff.

I guess long story short, I took it upon myself to learn all this stuff and was fortunate enough to find a few people that were willing to teach me. I really get a kick out of building target rifles and custom hunting rigs. However doing all the not so glamorous repair work is where most of the $$$$ comes from in most shops.

I don't think I'll be opening a shop anytime soon because I will be going to chiropractic school at the end of the year, but I do plan to have my own shop in the future to do my own work and I will build stuff for friends and family. This is how both of the guys I worked with started. It was a hobby, then turned into part time, then they got so busy that it turned into a full time business. None of the smiths I know that own their own shop started out right off the bat doing full time smithing.

My next project once I can afford it is metal engraving. I think that is just the neatest thing ever an I am more of a classic rifle type guy and love working with wood and steel. I don't like the idea of bolting a gun together. All my rifles I built have wood or laminate stocks other than one ruger 10/22 that I "bolted together" when I was 14 or so.

Anyways, I with student loans up to my eyeballs (which I pay unlike some grads) on top of everything else, I would need to make too much money a year to pay my bills and run the business. For me, it's not that I expect to make $xx,xxx a year in a job, I NEED to make $xx,xxx k to pay my bills and have a few bucks left over for savings, go out to eat once a month and take a trip to see family a few times a year. I didn't get a good paying job right out of college, but I have one now and am grateful for it.

Below is one of my latest projects. Nobody I know as done this. It is pewter caps and inlays like they use to do on old black powder rifles. Someone here mentioned it and I thought it would be cool. The guy I work for now saw it and wanted to know how I did it so I taught him. I've since put about 15 coats of finish on this stock and probably need another 15-20 more.

Nice work! You are going it about it properly. Make your money and buy your tools as you go along. Doing it part time is fun and will help you decide if is really what you may want to do.
Get in touch with Dan Killough,Killough Shooting Sports. Dan eventually gave up his chiropractor career to go into the gun business.