Where I live any gunsmith let alone a quality gunsmith is hard to find. The one I have now lives 650 miles away so it is stricky thru the mail. All my work so far has been re-barral, bedding, and muzzel brake work. THis smith also shoots BR so he knows what is required. My rifles are strickly hunting but I want as much accurracy as possible. When I have a project I call and we disscuss what I need and he quotes a price. I send the components for the build along with 75% of the discussed price in cash dollars along with a cheque to cover the remaining. It's amazing how fast my re-build comes back with perfect work.
Why a Persistent Lack of Gunsmiths?
- Thread starter Phil3
- Start date
A solution for the gunsmith who has rifles lying around for months after the job is done.
I had a pond re-dug some years back. It needed to be deepened. The contractor wanted $1000.00 for the two day job. I told him I'd pay him $1200.00 but I'd charge $100.oo per day for equipment storage after three days from the time the equipment showed up on the scene. He was done in two days, the stuff was gone, and everyone was happy. About two months later he pulled up on the road near our pond. I wondered what the hell was going on. It turns out the neighbor across the road was having a pond dug. The neighbor said the guy wanted $4000.00 but he talked him down to $3600.00. Two months later the stuff was still parked next to the new pond. Smiths, charge for storage and you'll get your money sooner.
I had a pond re-dug some years back. It needed to be deepened. The contractor wanted $1000.00 for the two day job. I told him I'd pay him $1200.00 but I'd charge $100.oo per day for equipment storage after three days from the time the equipment showed up on the scene. He was done in two days, the stuff was gone, and everyone was happy. About two months later he pulled up on the road near our pond. I wondered what the hell was going on. It turns out the neighbor across the road was having a pond dug. The neighbor said the guy wanted $4000.00 but he talked him down to $3600.00. Two months later the stuff was still parked next to the new pond. Smiths, charge for storage and you'll get your money sooner.
I am a younger guy(29) and I absolutely loves guns and everything about them. I wanna get into the firearms business I just don't know in what part. I have thought about a retail shop or gunsmithing or possibly making bullets. I can't believe the money all this stuff costs. Just in a mill and a lathe your looking at 10s of thousands of dollars. Even dies for making bullets is outrageous if you wanna make more than one caliber. I am also thinking if I don't do something this stuff is gonna dry up(gunsmiths and custom bullets). You don't see any young people doing any of this work.
CatShooter
Hoier said:
IF you think the machines are expensive, then the cost of the tooling and accessories that go with them will put you in shock - the lathe itself is peanuts compared to the tools, reamers spyders, and thousands of little bits that you will need, and will eat you up.
Hoier said:
I don't see young people doing ANY kind of work. Even my 21 year old son is disgusted at the work ethics of his age group (he got his from me and works his buns off).
I put almost 30 years on the Houston P.D. with 18+ years as a Lieutenant.. During JUST the time as a Lieutenant, I bet I supervised well over 1000 Officers and Sergeants. During the last 5 years or so of my tenure there, I have never seen such crybabies, arrogant, high-minded sloths in my entire work life! I could tell you stories that would make you shake your head in wonderment! Suffice to say, the days of "the work ethic" are L-O-N-G gone! To be sure, there are some really excellent young people out there, however, they are a distinct minority!
Uthink Uknow and Dickn52,
It's not that easy. I talked with a local magistrate and the local ATF office. Here's the short of it. The guns, 2 336 marlin 30-30's, 1 760 Remington and 1 savage 340. The work I did, reblued all 4 guns at $150.00 each, redid stocks on 3 at $100.00 each and repairs on all 4 at $94.58. That totals $994.58. The owner gave me a deposit of $25.00. This is were it get sticky because he gave me a down payment even thou it was in Sept. of 2011, he made an attempt to pay. I would have to get a lawyer involved. I have sent 2 registered letters at around $13.00, to which I got no response. Now is it worth it for me to get any more money invested in these guns? If I do sell the guns I'll get what 700.00. Then this person tell everyone he meets how I sold his guns and didn't give him a chance to pick them up, as you know he's not going to say I gave him 2 years to do so. As everyone can attest it doesn't matter how many good things you do it's the one bad thing everyone talks about and remembers, and as all ready stated above reputation is everything in the gunsmith business.
It's not that easy. I talked with a local magistrate and the local ATF office. Here's the short of it. The guns, 2 336 marlin 30-30's, 1 760 Remington and 1 savage 340. The work I did, reblued all 4 guns at $150.00 each, redid stocks on 3 at $100.00 each and repairs on all 4 at $94.58. That totals $994.58. The owner gave me a deposit of $25.00. This is were it get sticky because he gave me a down payment even thou it was in Sept. of 2011, he made an attempt to pay. I would have to get a lawyer involved. I have sent 2 registered letters at around $13.00, to which I got no response. Now is it worth it for me to get any more money invested in these guns? If I do sell the guns I'll get what 700.00. Then this person tell everyone he meets how I sold his guns and didn't give him a chance to pick them up, as you know he's not going to say I gave him 2 years to do so. As everyone can attest it doesn't matter how many good things you do it's the one bad thing everyone talks about and remembers, and as all ready stated above reputation is everything in the gunsmith business.
I do see your point, but at what point does the owner 'abandon' his property? Of course it's a sticky item to pursue whaen you 'extend credit' by taking a payment. Get even and charge interet on the unpaid balance. I mean if he calls you his 'bank', then act like one in return, you may have to get tough. If he starts talking about it later, talk back. "Not responsible for items unclaimed after 90 days from complete date" sign in the store will help at a later date. If your rep is good, it will stand up to someone who is basically not living up to their end of the contract.
When you take in a firearm for service, repair or modification, ownership does not change, the customer still "owns" it (don't sell it , as advised by ATFE in OKC, you'll be selling stolen property). It's usually the other way around, though. You get treated like their work is the only work you have, you were just sitting around waiting for them to come in, even though you gave the a time frame when they carried it in. And then there are those who, because they carried in all the parts, think that puts them at the head of the line (many times all those parts are not correct or compatiable). Combine these things with not being able to count on getting what you ordered in a timely manner (tools are back logged, here lately) and it can get a bit crazy. Not to mention, it's nice to have some sort of 'life', yourself. And, there are always the unexpected things that life brings.
The thing is to see the lawyer and have a form (contract)signed in advance. It makes you seem like the paper badger and money monger but it solves problems before they are a problem. This is what I did for the pond. I would have no problem with a smith that wants the paper work done first. It protects both parties.
CaptainMal
Silver $$ Contributor
Most of this is new to me. Makes me real happy to know Eric Bostrom at Bostrom Gunsmithing for target rifle work.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
Reading this thread just makes me feel more fortunate.
The reason that I put my local smith's logo in my sig is that I know I'm fortunate to have a local shop that I can drive to in 20 min to drop of my rifles for work. Every bit of work I've seen from Bob Howard is good. He will talk with me about what I want, he knows what I expect from my rifles, they have never missed a delivery quote (and never quoted me longer than a month when I took in the parts), and their prices are very reasonable, so if by chance someone sees it and send them some more work then they stay in business and my selfish needs continue to be met.
All that said, the reason more people aren't getting into the business is money. As stated above, if you have a reputation people will wait in line to get a rifle from you, but if you are new you may starve.
ARshuter, Bob once gave me a compliment, he said he liked building guns for me because I know how to load. He said one of the worst things for a smith is to give a guy a $4000 rifle and have him come back complaining that it wont shoot groups with surplus Romanian ammo. (though not as bad as running the wrong caliber)
The reason that I put my local smith's logo in my sig is that I know I'm fortunate to have a local shop that I can drive to in 20 min to drop of my rifles for work. Every bit of work I've seen from Bob Howard is good. He will talk with me about what I want, he knows what I expect from my rifles, they have never missed a delivery quote (and never quoted me longer than a month when I took in the parts), and their prices are very reasonable, so if by chance someone sees it and send them some more work then they stay in business and my selfish needs continue to be met.
All that said, the reason more people aren't getting into the business is money. As stated above, if you have a reputation people will wait in line to get a rifle from you, but if you are new you may starve.
ARshuter, Bob once gave me a compliment, he said he liked building guns for me because I know how to load. He said one of the worst things for a smith is to give a guy a $4000 rifle and have him come back complaining that it wont shoot groups with surplus Romanian ammo. (though not as bad as running the wrong caliber)
Not trying to offend anyone but quit bashing "young-people" as if we were dropped off by aliens. We are a result of how we were raised, end of story. Some of us still do have a work ethic because our parents cared enough to teach us one, better yet to show it. Half of the older guys I work with say the same BS all of the time and yet call off for the slightest BS. If i had grown up seeing that I'd be worthless too. The other problem with us "young-people" is that there are few out there with any experience that will get off their high horse and teach us something. I've begged some older guys at work to teach me to run a lathe or a mill and all I get is some smart a$$ remark about something else they didn't teach you in college. The same colleges that the older generation told me I was an idiot not to attend, now once I did and got into the workforce I'm automatically to good for someone to teach me.
You might love the hills like I do, I'm from Harlan BTW, but you may have to make a decision to move soon. Sounds to me like you're in the wrong place right now if that's the way your co-workers treat you. I finally retired as a Chief of Police. I can't imagine a single day I didn't try to pass on some little insight to a rookie with potential. The trick though was hiding the pearl in the story and waiting for the light to come on. Wish you best.wvuredneck09 said:
Is becoming a machinist part of your "job discription"? If not, those "old guys" have work to do, you know, so they get to keep their job and get paid, and have no obligation to stay after their shift to teach you, free gratis. They want to go home to their families and other 'off' hours activities,, and you can't blame them, they did their shift. You're not going to learn what they know in a few hours, anyway. If you want to become a machinist hire in as a trainee.wvuredneck09 said:
I don't expect to learn it all in a day and don't expect guys to stay over and teach me either. I am a field service engineer for a company and when I'm in the shop looking over stuff I often have some extra time on my hands and would like to just sit back and learn from them. Sure they would have to slow down a bit to explain what they are doing and I've already talked to their boss and that is not a problem, orders aren't that demanding at the moment anyways. The problem is that they don't want to teach/assume that I can't learn/whatever it may be. As far as gunsmiths go, how many of you that are complaining would actually take someone who knew nothing about machining and teach them you're craft? Lets not forget that you're generation allowed schools to give up shop classes and what not were you learned your basic skills. My high school didn't/doesn't even have a wood shop let alone any type of metal shop.
I have to laugh at myself and all the other comments.. I am an "old-head" and spouted off about MOST (certainly not all) of the young "kids and their work ethic" or lack thereof. I do, or should I say I used to get hacked pretty good at those "kids".. However, I neglected to say that some of my most slothful Officers & Sergeants were "old-heads" too, who thought that by virtue of their seniority, they could "slack off" and be "nigh on to worthless" and that would be or should be ok! Suffice to say that when dealing with people, you always have one MAJOR problem: PEOPLE!! LOL!! Now, it is MY experience that the younger ones are more apt to be "less than stellar" employees. Would it be safe to say that NO WORKER, no matter his / her age, if they are lazy and shiftless are of no use to anyone, and they certainly won't be learning the trade and profession of "gunsmithing"!!
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