Why a Persistent Lack of Gunsmiths?

[mattlewis]

for perspective, i like to think i am also one of the "younger" generation. i will be 40 in a couple years.

a person cannot be a gunsmith, without having an underlying machinist background to start with. a machinist, is what we commonly refer to a tradesman.

a tradesman has to physically work. actual labor. from the 1900's to the early 60's, one of the greatest things for a young man to aspire to be was a tradesman. Uncle Sam would often be the one to teach you about machining, pipefitting, electrical, or even construction, while you were fighting commies, nazi's, and other despots.

or maybe you framed/plumbed/wired/roofed houses with your uncle during the summers. or worked in a different uncle's auto repair business or drycleaning shop. when you got out of high school, you might have chosen one of those as your profession, and spend a life time of being a tradesman of one form or another.

then one day, a bunch of "smart" people (some might call them hippies) decided we would be better off in the USA, if we all had sit down jobs in an air conditioned office, and let only the dummies and foreigners do those nasty trades.

and so it was decided that henceforth all kids who were not drooling morons would aspire to go to college and get degrees.

now we live in a world where there are no retiring machinists who want to start a second career as a gunsmith. and co-incidentally, there is nobody worth a damn to work on much of anything else anymore, either.

in 1985 my high school had classes for General Building Trades, Auto Mechanics, Drafting, Woodworking, Welding, Agricultural/Horticulture. in 1993 when i graduated, only 3 remained, and today, only woodworking is left. when that teacher retires, that program will also be terminated.

"For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up"

 

[butchlambert]

for perspective, i like to think i am also one of the "younger" generation. i will be 40 in a couple years.

a person cannot be a gunsmith, without having an underlying machinist background to start with. a machinist, is what we commonly refer to a tradesman.

a tradesman has to physically work. actual labor. from the 1900's to the early 60's, one of the greatest things for a young man to aspire to be was a tradesman. Uncle Sam would often be the one to teach you about machining, pipefitting, electrical, or even construction, while you were fighting commies, nazi's, and other despots.

or maybe you framed/plumbed/wired/roofed houses with your uncle during the summers. or worked in a different uncle's auto repair business or drycleaning shop. when you got out of high school, you might have chosen one of those as your profession, and spend a life time of being a tradesman of one form or another.

then one day, a bunch of "smart" people (some might call them hippies) decided we would be better off in the USA, if we all had sit down jobs in an air conditioned office, and let only the dummies and foreigners do those nasty trades.

and so it was decided that henceforth all kids who were not drooling morons would aspire to go to college and get degrees.

now we live in a world where there are no retiring machinists who want to start a second career as a gunsmith. and co-incidentally, there is nobody worth a damn to work on much of anything else anymore, either.

in 1985 my high school had classes for General Building Trades, Auto Mechanics, Drafting, Woodworking, Welding, Agricultural/Horticulture. in 1993 when i graduated, only 3 remained, and today, only woodworking is left. when that teacher retires, that program will also be terminated.

"For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up"

I agree, most high schools around here have none of these classes left.

 

[shortgrass]

Short grass I plan on doing more than the required amount of work. I won't have Wayne as a direct instructor as he is morning and I will be in the evening class. Wayne is now the department head and rumor is he is close to retiring but I am not sure how true that is. Have heard nothing but great things about Waynes work and to soak up anything I can from him. I am a little nervous about all the impatient customers wanting stuff right now and not wanting to pay X amount bc the gun is only worth x amount.

For Parsons; Some guns are worth fixin',,, some ain't,,,,,,, some would be better used as trotline weights. Tell 'um right up front how long and a ball park estimate for how much. If they can't live with that, send 'um! If you waited until 2 days before you were supposed to leave for your Montana elk hunt or deer season before you brought your 'problem' in, that you knew about at the end of last season and did nothing about , be prepared to pay extra,,,, a lot extra! If you're a resident of the Troy area you're in not a good place to open shop as there are hundreds of graduates and even more who didn't graduate, within a 40 mile radius, who are doing the majority of the work. Besides, unless North Carolinians in that area have changed in the last 20 years, they want you to work for nothing, anyway. I had 18 years experience as job shop machinist (4 of those in the tool room) before I decided to go to school. I checked out the school in south east OK, but they didn't have the stockmaking I was interested in. A nice machine shop, but little stockmaking. I knew I would work a part time job while going to school, but prospects for part time work were limited in south east Colorado. I rented an apartment in Albemarle and had no trouble finding part time work at a machine shop and got to attend a school that had a through program.

 

[Kings X]

I agree with Matt Lewis.
I am a machinist. Have been for 48 years.
Part time target rifle builder for 35+ years.
I don't know how someone can be a "general" gunsmith without a machinist background or a LOT of training.
As far a making a living equal to your customers - lots of luck. These are folks spending their "play" money. As a business owner - you have your rent (could be part of your house payment), heating and cooling, insurance, shop supplies (custom reamers are not cheap), an inventory of products, transportation, and if any is left over - your salary. I build some pretty good long range rifles - I don't bring in enough to even pay for my own shooting equipment and supplies. Becuase my "habit" is the same as theirs. The only difference is the labor is free on my guns.
I am retired from the rat race and smith when I feel like it. It is not a "business" for me. Just a hobby to help other shooters out. My turn around time can be "wait there till I finish" or 3 months. I don't do "general gunsmithing" work. Like SHORTGRASS said - most "general stuff" can be replaced with new items cheaper than having it repaired. You can spend 20 hours getting grand dad's 22 to fire. Try charging for that 20 hours at the same hourly rate your customer is making at his job.
Believe me - THERE ARE A LOT OF VERY GOOD GUNSMITHS OUT THERE. JUST WAIT THE TIME AND PAY THE BILL.

 

[Phil3]

I thought this was interesting, as another story from a gunsmith who got into the business later in life.

http://www.gradousrifles.com/about.php

And another way he earns a few extra bucks.

http://www.gradousrifles.com/class.php
http://forum.snipershide.com/sniper-hide-gunsmithing/21865-robert-gradouss-tactical-rifle-gunsmithing-class.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xLtkJCsAm8 The YouTube story.

Phil

 

[rayjay]

Gunsmithing might also be more profitable if there weren't so many hacks out there sucking business from the competent. Some of the crap work I have seen at the range is amazing.

Tenon threads without a 60 degree angle anywhere [ looked more like a ratchet ];

Bedding job that ended up with the action sitting 1/4" higher than before and bits of Devcon here and there on the exterior of the stock. Also, the bbl was obviously pointed off to one side.

Chambering job with a nice groove in the center of the shoulder [ "Is the fired brass supposed to look like this ?"].

Rimfire chambers with nice burrs in the leade [ I'm actually surprised when I see a rf chamber without burrs ].

 

[Jim See]

This is directed more to Jim See, but others can chime in if they know the answer. What's insurance run per year for a gunsmith shop? In today's "legal environment" insurance costs hamper the establishment/growth of any small business, and I imagine gunsmithing would be worst of all. I've mulled getting into the firearms biz but the liability aspect of things and banks' general aversion to firearms at this time make it improbable.

I ran an llc for limited personal protection and then got insurance the 2nd or 3rd year, when it was not a financial burden.

Insurance cost for me was based on an estimation of the years sales, divided into different categories. The first year it was $2700. It went down every year to my last when it was $1700, and my sales were 3 times what they were the first year i was covered. I had no claims so that helped I'm sure. That was a product liability policy, I carried a property/general liability thru another carrier for about $1200 a year

 

[Minesweeper3433]

All I can say is I hope i make it. But to be honest there are so many taxes and fees and regulations at this point that I would never want a hard stand shop. I would however consider opening a shop that did chemical coatings, powder coatings, case hardening, and in the back I would have my gunsmith shop that I only did work for select individuals. But a stand alone gunshop in this economy is doomed. However a gunshop I frequent that specialized in NFA items especially suppressors and SBR's did extremely well in the last 6 years. They went from paying the bills and trying to sell constantly to driving dodge vipers to work and racking in multi millions in a year during 2009, 2011,2012 and they are on their way this year as well. Get into the business of what sells and if you can stock your shelves you'll do just fine. And the most difficult "gunsmithing jobs" that they do at this store is replacing triggers with drop in kits in S&W MP pistols.