What % off max pressure do you use to get that kind of record firings?!!
Who doesnt anneal?
- Thread starter 1942farmall
- Start date
What % off max pressure do you use to get that kind of record firings?!!
Geronimo Jim
Gold $$ Contributor
30 br loaded with H4198 from 33.9 to 34.8 over the years with 115 ish bullet.
Pareto
Silver $$ Contributor
I've started considering annealing (I'm just starting with reloading and shooting 6br). Looking at the pic, it seems that there are a statistically significant number of cases in the fully annealed example that both allow you to shoot many more times to failure but **also** a significant number that fail early relative to the case of no annealing.
Has anyone looked at that issue or tried to explain it? Or at least repeated this test with a larger sample?
Also, is there any similar data on the effects of purposely over annealing? Not to destruction, but perhaps (assuming a base annealing time of 5-6 secs) going 2x as long as normal (10 secs).
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find the video eric cortina did on over annealing.
Pareto
Silver $$ Contributor
Yes. I watched it. I didn't see where he did a followup showing how they shot though. However, that video does suggest to me that minimum time (adequate annealing) is important but that over annealing is not very critical. So in the examples he used 10 secs vs 5 secs should never be an issue as 20 seemed to seat the same. I have a post separately where I mention this as well as this other article that more clearly shows that going beyond the minimally/optimal annealing point doesn't matter a lot till you're closer to melting the brass. But I wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking some shooters' experiences where a medium range of error in temp and/or length of time in annealing (on the over side) was irrelevant.
When thinking about annealing, one needs to keep in mind the relationship annealing has with both temperature and time . . . and even the mass of brass being heated. When talking about a gas flame, how hot the flame is varies depending on the setting and where the brass is placed in the flame. The amount of annealing is a function of temperature and time, so saying something like 5, 6 or 8 seconds doesn't really say anything about how much of the annealing process is being done. With a constant and particular flame temperature, a 223 case with their thin neck walls will heat up much faster than something like a 338 case with thicker neck walls. It's a very similar issue with induction annealing and why AMP annealers use different code settings for different brass.
The trick is to find the right amount of time for one's particular brass with one's particular annealing setup. One can use tempilaq to gauge the temperature one wants, or one can go with looking for the neck to start to turn red in a darkened room, which gives a nice idea where the temperature's at for annealing regardless of flame temperature or thickness of the brass. Whatever time it takes to get to that point, is the time to uses for that particular brass with that particular annealing setup.
One can go a long at 10 seconds to anneal brass if the flame is not "really hot", but as I'm saying, that time by itself is not the key.
When annealing brass, the faster one can heat the neck/shoulder area, the better so that the heating going to towards the base is minimized. When one can get the neck/shoulder area 800-1000°F (that's where it'll start to glow a little reddish in a dark room), that's when you will get a decent annealing job on your neck/shoulder area.
One can "over anneal" a case and they'll still work, but not if it's totally anneal where that's considered annealed to failure for sure. Eric Cortina has a video where he's done this and showed some of his results:
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Dave M.
F-Open Class shooter (284 win, 6dasher, 6.5-7PRCW)
50 firings is extremely impressive. You are clearly doing something right. Keep up the good work. I don’t shoot 30BR and I don’t know what the average brass life is for this round, but I feel ANY round you can get 20+ firings out of a piece of brass is doing extremely well, especially if those pieces are still shooting competitively.
Dave
3Sigma
Silver $$ Contributor
This is why I started. 22-250 Lapua brass, 4th firing. Using a lee collet die, and couldn't adjust it small enough. It was either anneal, buy a new bushing die, or trash the expensive and hard to find cases.
Broke out the torch, 13mm deep well, got some Tempilaq and had at it. Groups got better as well.
Now I do it to extend brass life and consistency over the lifespan of all my brass. But, I don't shoot enough to make it a chore.
Dave M.
F-Open Class shooter (284 win, 6dasher, 6.5-7PRCW)
To each their own. If you are happy with what you are doing and your scoring reflects that, I say your are good. Personally, I have to see the value of doing any extra processes on the target and prove it to myself. To me, the difference between 5x fired brass without any annealing vs 5x fired brass that were annealed after each firing, was very easy to see on the target. In fact, at 600 yards it was worth 2.5 points per 200 point round (over 3 relays shot both ways on the same day, both started from a fully cleaned bore).
I have never go to a match with a fully cleaned bore! have to try that one day.
Dave M.
F-Open Class shooter (284 win, 6dasher, 6.5-7PRCW)
You should. Works great. Nothing more predictable than a fully cleaned barrel after 2-3 foulers.
with my amp and amp mate, it’s so stupid easy, there isn’t a reason NOT to do it.
Dave M.
F-Open Class shooter (284 win, 6dasher, 6.5-7PRCW)
Slick. I need you to make me one of those auto feeders. That is really nice. I don’t have the microprocessor knowledge to pull that off.
Dave
me neither, luckily the fine folks at amp make one for the low price of $450 (dillon case feeder not included).
says up to 338 lapua but im hoping i can automate my 300 rum brass
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White Eagle
Silver $$ Contributor
I like to everything possible to wring out the most accuracy in the chamber I am using
if it only makes me believe that it helps that builds my confidence and that sure don't hurt anything
being an experimenter I am not afraid or to set in my ways not to try something new
if it only makes me believe that it helps that builds my confidence and that sure don't hurt anything
being an experimenter I am not afraid or to set in my ways not to try something new
Maybe its the under bore of 30br. Next best is a shotshell
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