Water bath anneal

[Nicktheshooter]

Great responses from everyone. My thought was that it was just 450 for some reason and that as fast as thin brass heats up, it would hit temp way before the water could even start to vapor. But did not think about case heads sitting directly on pan, acting as a heat sink. I do think the torch and drill method will be what I try as I already have all that.

 

[mr45man]

Assuming you have a cordless drill. You would only need a properly sized socket propane pencil torch head and propane bottle. It's slow, and tedious. But economical (20-30 $) and if done properly works as well as the other automated propane setups. Although maybe not quite as consistant.

Yep, still have my old set up in the shed. havnt used it in many moons.

 

[BeefyT11]

Great responses from everyone. My thought was that it was just 450 for some reason and that as fast as thin brass heats up, it would hit temp way before the water could even start to vapor. But did not think about case heads sitting directly on pan, acting as a heat sink. I do think the torch and drill method will be what I try as I already have all that.

Just make sure you have a pencil flame torch head, I didnt when I started and while it "worked" it took much longer and significantly heated the entire case

 

[rwj]

Just make sure you have a pencil flame torch head, I didnt when I started and while it "worked" it took much longer and significantly heated the entire case

Also recommend applying some temperature indicating material on the case neck ID to establish the flame time duration. Opinions on this topic vary, but there seems to be consensus on raising the neck/shoulder temperature into the 750 - 1000 degrees F range.

 

[DRNewcomb]

Many ovens have a "self-clean" mode where they hit >600º F but it takes a long time to get there and the door locks shut during the process. I'd imagine that any water in the pan would evaporate long before the process was done. OTHO, if you happen to have a Neapolitan pizza oven in your back yard, you might just give it shot.

 

[Nicktheshooter]

Many ovens have a "self-clean" mode where they hit >600º F but it takes a long time to get there and the door locks shut during the process. I'd imagine that any water in the pan would evaporate long before the process was done. OTHO, if you happen to have a Neapolitan pizza oven in your back yard, you might just give it shot.

View attachment 1189267

Not a pizza oven but a kamado that can hit over 800 deg! Hmmm, pizza and annealing, sounds like a good combination.lol

 

[Mainmechanic]

Look up the " candle method for cartridge annealing " I have not tried it myself. Appears to be pretty safe as far as not getting the base to hot. Will be trying it myself next time around. Good read written by a metalurgist. Only investment is a candle.

 

[TC260]

Look up the " candle method for cartridge annealing " I have not tried it myself. Appears to be pretty safe as far as not getting the base to hot. Will be trying it myself next time around. Good read written by a metalurgist. Only investment is a candle.

It's slow and a bit messy (soot) but it works. An alcohol lamp is cleaner burning.

 

[BoydAllen]

When my friend started with a torch and drill, I made a suggestion that he said helped a lot. I told him to buy an inexpensive electronic metronome (battery powered) and set it to 60 beats per minute, so that he could hear the seconds tick off, while watching the case and flame. Here is a link to some like I was referring to. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=metronom...&ref=sr_st_price-asc-rank&tag=accuratescom-20

 

[Sandstorm]

This thread really makes me say ( WHY )...Seems like a lot of trouble, when the solution is already on the market.
Year buy once cry once...I have found in this sport of ours its going to cost you an arm and a leg..just a matter of time
before you say Uncle....sorry fellas just my 2c..Ill shut up now.

 

[BeefyT11]

When my friend started with a torch and drill, I made a suggestion that he said helped a lot. I told him to buy an inexpensive electronic metronome (battery powered) and set it to 60 beats per minute, so that he could hear the seconds tick off, while watching the case and flame. Here is a link to some like I was referring to. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=metronome+digital&s=price-asc-rank&crid=3TOW4KTZ60CIZ&qid=1594499235&sprefix=metronome,aps,246&ref=sr_st_price-asc-rank&tag=accuratescom-20

This is a great idea I used a smart phone app metronome myself

 

[DRNewcomb]

I've used a propane torch and a 3/8" socket selected to fit the case's rim, with a short extension. Rotate in flame in a dark room until you see the slightest glow. It worked. I now have an Annealeez. It's fast and consistent.

 

[BoydAllen]

This thread really makes me say ( WHY )...Seems like a lot of trouble, when the solution is already on the market.
Year buy once cry once...I have found in this sport of ours its going to cost you an arm and a leg..just a matter of time
before you say Uncle....sorry fellas just my 2c..Ill shut up now.

Actually, my friend was able to fully meet his annealing goals with simple and affordable equipment. Of course he used some Tempilaq as well, to come up with his times.

I prefer running a thin line of 500 degree down from the point of the shoulder of a setup case (One case can be cooled cleaned and reused many times.) Using a time that burns the Tempilaq down to where the annealing color is on a lapua case. If you want to sneak up on it, use a second less on several cases and check the uniformity of your shoulder bumps. I them done just to the point where the bumps become very uniform and no more. This leaves some neck tension, enough for magazine use.

 

[Sandstorm]

@BoydAllen,
I totally get it and understand the process. Yes you are correct, in that it can be achieved as stated quite well.
Just a time consuming process, and I already spend a lot of time creating match loads....but to each his own by all means.

 

[whatsupdoc]

I started annealing using the salt bath process, it became a big pain in the ass so I ended up building an induction annealer from the plans on this forum. I really enjoyed building my induction annealer, it is super fast and SEEMS to work great.

It SEEMS to work great because without a way to test the hardness of brass you are shooting blind.

I will say that my brass almost lasts forever and my case shoulders are bumped with a higher level of consistency since I started annealing whether I used salt bath or induction, but I dont know the level of anneal I am achieving.

After this long road I now realize I just should of coughed up the 1300 and been done.

 

[Webster]

Don’t assume that if you hit a certain hardness your groups will get smaller. Anneal a few cases less and some more I don’t think you will be able to see a difference. Been a while since I read the AMPS docs, I think they may say otherwise. There are so many variables it’s hard to tell what a small change will make. You would probably have to be a great shooter shooting in a tunnel to see the difference. Let the sparks fly. If you don’t want your annealer send it to me.

 

[Brians356]

When my friend started with a torch and drill, I made a suggestion that he said helped a lot. I told him to buy an inexpensive electronic metronome (battery powered) and set it to 60 beats per minute, so that he could hear the seconds tick off, while watching the case and flame. Here is a link to some like I was referring to. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=metronome+digital&s=price-asc-rank&crid=3TOW4KTZ60CIZ&qid=1594499235&sprefix=metronome,aps,246&ref=sr_st_price-asc-rank&tag=accuratescom-20

That's what I did, already having a metronome to hand. I use a cheap butane torch, spinning the case with an electric screwdriver, nestled securely in a rabbit ear bag, turning a Lee case holder which has a hex drive. Using Tempilaq to determine the seconds required for a particular case, thereafter it's just counting seconds. Butane burns cooler than propane, so it takes about 15 seconds for a 6mm Rem case for example, but it also means +/- a half second won't be significant.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...ut-bare-with-me-please.3852812/#post-36451728
-

 

[BoydAllen]

Don’t assume that if you hit a certain hardness your groups will get smaller. Anneal a few cases less and some more I don’t think you will be able to see a difference. Been a while since I read the AMPS docs, I think they may say otherwise. There are so many variables it’s hard to tell what a small change will make. You would probably have to be a great shooter shooting in a tunnel to see the difference. Let the sparks fly. If you don’t want your annealer send it to me.

Along the same lines, several winning long range benchrest shooters that I have spoken with do not anneal, based on their test results, others do. Bottom line, don't assume. Test, and believe your targets. That is what they did. Hint: Some powders like quite a bit of bullet pull, and others do not require it. That could be a determining factor. Don't assume that results with one powder apply to another.

 

[Metal God]

Some powders like quite a bit of bullet pull, and others do not require it. That could be a determining factor. Don't assume that results with one powder apply to another.

That right there is an interesting observation that I had not fully thought through . Thinking the little harder to ignite powders may do better off if the bullet takes a bit more pressure to start moving , like maybe ball powders ???

I know when I anneal I'm looking for stress relief more then consistent bullet hold . I'm not a bench rest guy and often load for auto loaders . Dead soft/fully annealed necks don't give me the bullet hold I want to help prevent bullet set back in auto loaders . So partial annealing/stress relieving is all I'm often looking for to extend case life and get marginally more consistent bullet hold .

 

[divingin]

Good reply. I asked several times who came up with the goal of 750F. No one knows.
I think it’s based on a reasonable temp and not over doing it.

Brass starts annealing (maybe the wrong term, as time is a factor as well) at about 500ish degrees. At 500, it would take a long time (hours, if not days) to fully anneal a piece of brass, as all annealing is temp and time. The 750 figure that came about by practice (I assume); a temperature that will fully anneal the neck and shoulder area of the brass without transferring too much heat to the base area. Brass (rifle brass, that is) will anneal at 750 in a second or two. You can anneal at a lower temp (with the requisite longer time), but the heat transfer to the case base and head could be enough to create an unsafe condition (you want the head relatively hard, and the shoulder and neck relatively soft.) Doesn't answer your question, per se, but given the parameters of annealing rifle brass, it kind of makes sense.