Who Can Outshoot Their Rifle?

[Jammer Six]

Can anyone here out-shoot their rifle?

When you buy a new rig, does your score really improve because of the rig?

There used to be a saying in pistol that there's nothing wrong with this weapon that six hundred rounds a month for a year won't cure.

They say the benchrest is one of those sports you only play if you can afford it, but I've noticed that a lot of the guys who say that can't shoot.

So I'm curious. Is it really the rifle? If so, how much accuracy can you buy?

 

[watercam]

For Bench Rest shooters, if their guns are not capable of shooting bug holes no amount of shooting technique and wind reading skills will make up the difference. And from what we see here there are a lot of talented shooters out there.
My match rifles are a joy from the bench. Then I put on the coat and sling and get the reality check! I shoot competitively and recreationally because I enjoy it. The day I throw my rifle down range because I did not shoot a High Master score is the day I hang it up. Actually saw a gent do just that once - one has to assume there were other things going on with him that day...

 

[JLT]

Can I outshoot my NEF .44 Magnum HandiRifle? Yep. My Eliseo/Borden 6.5-284 space gun? Nope.

Interesting question. With the possible exceptions of triggers and bedding, one might make a compelling case that the marginal contribution of most accuracy 'enhancements' is pretty small when compared to investing the time to improve fundamental shooting skills. A lot like golf - it's really tough to buy a better game. I tried. I have a basement full of putters that I'll be mad at forever.

Practice, practice, practice baby!

 

[clowdis]

As a prone shooter I can tell when my barrel needs replacing by my scores and the elevation I'm shooting downrange. I am not better than a good rifle but I am better than a worn barrel. I think that shooters don't give themselves enough credit sometimes. Years ago I would shoot a worn barrel through several matches and blame myself for the bad scores but after replacing the barrel and watching my scores return to higher numbers I have finally come to grips with the fact that I have learned a few things and improved myself over the years. I don't think I'm alone.

 

[dcali]

Rifles add error. Everyone can outshoot their rifle.

 

[MGYSGT]

How would you know????

 

[swd]

Rifles add error. Everyone can outshoot their rifle.

I would disagree with that, there are definitely shooters who can't outshoot their rifles. I can direct you to a public range where you can see many examples of rifles that would love to have a different owner.

 

[Joe Salt]

Like I always say! Practice Practice Practice. Every year when I start shooting 1000 yard Benchrest after a long winter. I have to learn to shoot all over again. I always try to shoot a 100 score but the damn rifle and wind tell me I can't shoot that all the time. So yes I'm better than the rife.

Joe Salt

 

[Jammer Six]

What I'm after, I guess, is this: if you shoot your rifle, and then someone hands you a rifle that's in a much higher class than your rifle, will your scores improve?

My bet is no. My bet is that most of us shoot the rifle we have to the best of our ability, and the rifle is limited by the shooter, not the shooter by the rifle.

 

[swd]

What I'm after, I guess, is this: if you shoot your rifle, and then someone hands you a rifle that's in a much higher class than your rifle, will your scores improve?

My bet is no. My bet is that most of us shoot the rifle we have to the best of our ability, and the rifle is limited by the shooter, not the shooter by the rifle.

I would say that completely depends on the accuracy of both of the rifles and the shooter. If say your shooting 600 yard F and you have a rifle only capable of 1 moa and your handed a rifle now capable 1/3 moa then yes I would expect to see scores improve at least a little unless the shooter is truly horrible. It's maybe a pretty extreme example but in the case of newer shooters certainly possible.

 

[Joe Salt]

What I'm after, I guess, is this: if you shoot your rifle, and then someone hands you a rifle that's in a much higher class than your rifle, will your scores improve?

My bet is no. My bet is that most of us shoot the rifle we have to the best of our ability, and the rifle is limited by the shooter, not the shooter by the rifle.

Sorry Jammer but I borrowed a rifle for the shoot off a while back and this was one of the top rifles that year and I won the shoot off with it.

So if you can shoot and have a good rifles it makes all the difference in the world.

Joe Salt

 

[clowdis]

Have to agree with Joe. It depends on the experience level of the shooter. A good rifle may not improve the scores of a new shooter.

 

[KMart]

A lot of kids that have not spent a lot of time behind a rifle, seem to do very well when put behind a good rifle.

 

[Jammer Six]

The problem with that story is that we don't know if you would have won with one of your rifles. Since you won, there's an excellent chance you would have won with one of your rifles. Or any decent rifle.

 

[SheepDog]

I've seen shooters that no rifle would help and I've seen shooters who had poor equipment. It's almost magical when a good shooter uses good equipment. I don't shoot long range matches but I don't own any bolt action rifles that don't print sub MOA groups consistently. I've also never had a rifle that won't do better with handloads than it does with factory ammo.

 

[dcali]

total dispersion = rifle dispersion + shooter dispersion

Good rifles *always* help. As a percentage of the total dispersion, they help good shooters more than poor shooters. But get rid of the idea that there is some sort of minimum skill required to take advantage of a good rifle.

 

[Jammer Six]

If you have a shooter that can't shoot moa, a sub moa rifle won't shoot a moa until a shooter who can picks it up.

I think there's a point where a better rifle will help, but handing a half-moa rifle to a shooter who isn't on paper won't get him on paper, because the change isn't that big between a moa factory gun and some quarter moa custom.

 

[Sniper338]

I out shot all my factory rifles. Thats why i sold them all and just own custom guns now.
0, .1, .2 moa groups werent possible with factory guns ive had. Now with my customs its a norm, or shall i say not a shocker..

 

[Jammer Six]

Huh.

I've made Carpenters. Note the capital. I discovered long, long ago that it's easier to teach on a heavy, cast iron cabinet saw than it is on a Dewalt Home Depot Special.

In other words, I can see how good equipment always helps.

How MUCH does it help with a rifle?

 

[Zero333]

total dispersion = rifle dispersion + shooter dispersion

Good rifles *always* help. As a percentage of the total dispersion, they help good shooters more than poor shooters. But get rid of the idea that there is some sort of minimum skill required to take advantage of a good rifle.

I agree with you.

Quite a bit of people would be surprised how well some noobies can shoot right of the bat as long as they get the right instructions from a experienced shooter.