Which Scale Check Weights?

[Milo 2.0]

You must not be shooting at 1000 yards,because if you were you would Know 50 fps difference shell to shell makes a BIG Difference,thats why some people get Large Vertical Groups.If you don't Believe it ,GO shoot at 1000 yards.I shoot thousands of rounds at long distance.You want ES and SD in the Single Digits if you can

You threw that one at the wrong guy. I'm not accusing here, but your train of thought has sold a ton of fx 120i's in the last 2 yrs. It pays to listen when some of these guys talk.
I shot 5 shots @500 yards, ES of 1, it grouped 11", all vertical. Single digits bite at times.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

You threw that one at the wrong guy. I'm not accusing here, but your train of thought has sold a ton of fx 120i's in the last 2 yrs. It pays to listen when some of these guys talk.
I shot 5 shots @500 yards, ES of 1, it grouped 11", all vertical. Single digits bite at times.

Ive seen 20 and even 30 shoot better than single digits. Guess its the real world again. And yes that was funny talking to my 1000yd hero like that.

 

[varget204]

I did not say some loads that verried, could not shoot good groups, Lower ES and SD will usually give you the Best Groups.If you run Data on Billistic Calculator [example] at 2900,2950.3000 fps you will get different amounts of Drop.If your groups were 11" at 500 yds you should be changing bullets,my 204 ruger will shoot 1/3 moa or better at 500 yards.When you shoot at 1000 yards or more just about Every thing makes a difference

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I did not say some loads that verried, could not shoot good groups, Lower ES and SD will usually give you the Best Groups.If you run Data on Billistic Calculator [example] at 2900,2950.3000 fps you will get different amounts of Drop.

correct in theory. not so much on the actual range. Never been to a ballistic calculator or chronograph match though. What happened to check weights? My bullet still weighs the same surprisingly.

 

[Milo 2.0]

I did not say some loads that verried, could not shoot good groups, Lower ES and SD will usually give you the Best Groups.If you run Data on Billistic Calculator [example] at 2900,2950.3000 fps you will get different amounts of Drop.If your groups were 11" at 500 yds you should be changing bullets,my 204 ruger will shoot 1/3 moa or better at 500 yards.When you shoot at 1000 yards or more just about Every thing makes a difference

I know how to develop loads. A chrono is a tool used, not the sole source. The target is my deciding factor.
But yes, usually numbers tighten up in accordance with group size, there is a reason for that too. Can you tell us why?

 

[Campbell]

This has got to be one of DUMBEST POSTS i have seen,bullets vary in weight,JOIN the NIT CLUB

I beg to differ. Within reason the exact weight of the charge does not matter a jot. What does, is the consistency of the charge weights.

One gradually develops a load, starting low and then working to a higher weight. If the optimum weight is established, then all one is concerned with is the repeatability of subsequent throw weights.

Just to be clear, I reiterate the "within reason". If the recommended start weight was, say, 44 gr but one's scales threw 54 gr then need I say more?

 

[Milo 2.0]

I beg to differ. Within reason the exact weight of the charge does not matter a jot. What does, is the consistency of the charge weights.

One gradually develops a load, starting low and then working to a higher weight. If the optimum weight is established, then all one is concerned with is the repeatability of subsequent throw weights.

Just to be clear, I reiterate the "within reason". If the recommended start weight was, say, 44 gr but one's scales threw 54 gr then need I say more?

He needs to go to snipers hide, they shoot the 223 valkrye to 2100 yards

 

[blastit37]

The exact weight of your check weight is not important unless you are selling gold or silver of even diamonds. Then you need the best check weight you can get and it must be at the same temperature each time you use it and be certified. For loads used in firearms, get something that weights well over the load weight you are using and use it each time you check, I use 30 grams which = 462.97 grains (1gr = 15.432g). I have no idea where the little weight came from, it was in a pile of junk I had laying around. You set your scale to a weight and develop your loads from that setting and don't change it. Don't spend 100$ or more on check weights, you just don't need it. We are after consistency, not the exact weight each time we use the scale.
I check each day I use my fx=120 and it always gets the same reading, 462.97g. I know, then, each time I weigh 40g of 4895 I am really close to that and I get the same amount of powder I did the day before. By the way, to get exactly 40.00g, I have to select short or long sticks of powder on that scale. I don't do it that way, I just round the load up to 40.02g and go on.

 

[dcali]

i need to buy a GOOD set of scale check weights. Please throw some options at me as to which weights are accurate and reliable.

Also, let me know which weights you would not recommend due to inconsistency of weight.

Depending on what you want, check out the test weights at McMaster Carr. They have many available and are of industrial quality from affordable to ridiculous. None in grains though, if I recall correctly. But you can get perfectly good certified 100g weights (for calibrating a Fx-120i for example)

 

[varget204]

correct in theory. not so much on the actual range. Never been to a ballistic calculator or chronograph match though. What happened to check weights? My bullet still weighs the same surprisingly.

If you have Never used a Ballistic calculator, or chronographed your shells .There is no hope for you at distance,

 

[JimSC]

For loads used in firearms, get something that weights well over the load weight you are using and use it each time you check, I use 30 grams which = 462.97 grains (1gr = 15.432g)

That brings up a point that I have been wondering about. Way back when I was in the Navy we taught and were taught that mechanical torque wrenches were the most accurate in the middle of their range. If you needed to use 50 Lbs of torque you gabbed the 0 - 100 pound wrench and not the 0 -300. Supposedly the cal lab calibrated the 0 - 100 at 50 pounds, and the 1- 300 was calibrated at 150 pounds. Would the same principle apply to electronic scales? Since my pan and normal charge is around 12.350 grams wouldn't it be it better to calibrate using a 10 gram checkweight than a 100 gram if my scale allows me to change the setting ? Testing that theory myself indicated that it seems to be more precise but I would like to hear it from a instrumentation person

edit or would it be better to calibrate mid way through the scales capacity. It's a Tree KHR 123 which has a 123 gram capacity. Would a 60 gram calibration be ideal or would it be better to calibrate near my normal pan/charge weight ?

 

[Milo 2.0]

If you have Never used a Ballistic calculator, or chronographed your shells .There is no hope for you at distance,

Short story, when I came here in early 2011, I was already somewhat accomplished at banging steel, to 2000 yards, and not huge plate. I read and interacted where I could, but in the back of my head, even though these guys could shoot 3" groups at 1K on command, I wondered if a single one of these putz's could start at 100 yards and hit targets to 1200 without vapor locking. Kicker here, I never inquired, and with time common sense prevailed and I realized I was not the first to do it anyway. They got here somehow, and were shooting more accurate loads than I could build, what gave me the idea that their loads may not get better coming back in to their shooting position.

My advice would be to listen up. Remember the old E.F. Hutton commercial? There are a few EF's here posting.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

My advice would be to listen up. Remember the old E.F. Hutton commercial? There are a few EF's here posting.

It helps to know your audience thats for sure.

 

[4xforfun]

Exact weight matters none. The best check weight is a bullet that you scratch the weight into and keep with the scale. No need to waste money on check weights

^^^^THIS^^^^

 

[Bart B.]

I shot 5 shots @500 yards, ES of 1, it grouped 11", all vertical.

Been thinking about this. Here's two things that can cause that.

One is bullet BC spread caused by slight unbalances that increases drag.

The other is the muzzle axis had about 2 MOA spread in vertical line of fire. Maybe caused by different amounts of recoil during barrel time as the muzzle rises.

 

[AROKHUNTER]

Well, this thread took off in its own after I started it. Lol. After reading all of the comments and input, I just purchased a set of Lyman check weights. They should be here next week. I think they will serve there intended purpose well.

Thanks for all of the comments!

 

[ED3]

You threw that one at the wrong guy. I'm not accusing here, but your train of thought has sold a ton of fx 120i's in the last 2 yrs. It pays to listen when some of these guys talk.
I shot 5 shots @500 yards, ES of 1, it grouped 11", all vertical. Single digits bite at times.

Your thoughts as to what is creating the vertical in that situation...

 

[Bart B.]

If you don't Believe it ,GO shoot at 1000 yards.I shoot thousands of rounds at long distance.You want ES and SD in the Single Digits if you can

Or use a tuner to compensate for velocity spread.

 

[JFrank]

correct in theory. not so much on the actual range. Never been to a ballistic calculator or chronograph match though. What happened to check weights? My bullet still weighs the same surprisingly.

I always picture a guy looking at his crappy target saying- I don't know what happened, my chrono said it was perfect "

 

[JimSC]

From what I have seen it is all about finding the proper powder and amount, coupled with the correct seating depth and the right primer

I always picture a guy looking at his crappy target saying- I don't know what happened, my chrono said it was perfect "

My ammo chronos below 10 FPS and sometimes below 5FPS but I still end up with shots in the 9 ring and the occasional 8 or even 7 if I misjudge the mirage or miss a windshift. I am of the opinion that devoting that money to be able to spend time on the firing line making smoke and noise helps tighten those groups and eliminate flyers more than pimping out my loading bench. When you have limited money like I do you want to spend it on what delivers the most improvement on the target.