Which gage is more beneficial?

[DanConzo]

I agree with the cheaper but not the other two. Wilson is and always was QUALITY.

 

[bigedp51]

DanConzo

Forgive me I do not shoot in competition and I'm looking at this posting through a different set of eyes. Also this is the general reloading forum and below it is the Competition reloading forum and in my thinking there should be some sort of dividing line between the two.

The Wilson gauge doesn't come with a granite block and a dial indicator and many of us just fumble with a set of vernier calipers to get our readings. Therefore the Wilson gauge is not more accurate because it doesn't come with anything else and some people are using nothing more than their eyeball and the Wilson gauge.

If you check the OP postings it appears that he just built a new rifle from a Stevens 200 action and is thinking about getting into competition. I'm guessing but I bet the OP doesn't have a granite block and a dial indicator.

KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid (Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge)

 

[DanConzo]

With a 308 Wilson gauge you can check 7/08, 260 Rem, 243, etc. With the 30-06 gauge the 270 280, and many more. I believe most Reloaders have a dial indicator, you can pick them up for a good price. A comparator cost $25 in the new Grizzly catalog. If you have a Forster Ultra seater or plain B/R seater and probably Redding Straight line seating dies also, you can take the floating sleeve out, insert your case of the same caliber and use your calipers or comparator (the tops are usually within .001") to measure headspace on your case whether fired, unfired, fl sized or whatever, you can do the same with a chamber type seating die (Wilson,etc), the tops and bottoms of these dies are machined very close, and it wouldn't cost nothing. There is more than one way to skin this cat. A comparator is a great tool for case measurements, checking bullets, checking to see if something is flat, checking heighths of things, etc. But I agree with you that the Hornady will be ok too.

 

[bigedp51]

DanConzo

Again forgive me I'm not being argumentative, BUT I load for military rifles also and because military chambers are larger in diameter, fired cases will not always fit in a Wilson case gauge. This the very reason below why I have the RCBS Precision Mic because my .308/7.62 cases would not fit in a Wilson gauge.

Many of my fired cases from my two AR15s rifles will not fit in a Wilson case gauge so I went out and bought the Hornady case gauge. The Hornady case gauge doesn't care what the body diameter of the case is or if the case needs trimmed.

With the Hornady case gauge "one size fits all" when it comes to measuring cases.

 

[bozo699]

For $38.95 and having one gauge that fits all calibers and not having to buy separate gauges and accessories for every caliber the Hornady gauge can't be beat.

I say this after using many Wilson Case gauges for years and if money was no object I would think about Innovative Technologies Digital Headspace Gauge.

http://www.larrywillis.com/

I’m surprised bozo699 didn’t mention this gauge also and put dancing Hula girls in his posting. :

Jeeesh Wayne....you could've at least put dancing hula girls in this post response.....LOL...Longfeather

BigedP51 would have done that I just call it how I see it, best of luck to you
Wayne.

Biged,
This is beyond a shadow of a doubt the best tool for the job I have ever used, I own stony point, Hornaday,..Wilsons,..rcbs,.....stubs of barrel blanks and other means for checking the proper shoulder bump needed to set your die up correctly! The only think I don't like about Larry's tool it the name,...it is not a headspace gauge, either is any of the tools mentioned on here, there for checking what is needed for shoulder bump and has absolutely NOTHING!! WHATSOEVER!!! with headspace, there are seperate tools and methods and tools for that.
P.S Ed thank you for the Hula girls
Wayne.

 

[bigedp51]

Biged,
The only thing I don't like about Larry's tool it the name,...it is not a headspace gauge, either is any of the tools mentioned on here, there for checking what is needed for shoulder bump and has absolutely NOTHING!! WHATSOEVER!!! with headspace, there are seperate tools and methods and tools for that.
Wayne.

bozo699

Ok I'm game, if you can measure chamber headspace which is the distance from the bolt face to the datum line in the chamber. WHY can't measuring from the base of the case to the shoulder of the case be called cartridge headspace and have something to do with headspace.

I don't know how well versed you are but at SavageShooters.com the brotherhood of the barrel nut uses cartridge cases and scotch tape to set their headspace. They also cry when they can't close their bolt on their full length resized cases. :'(

P.S. The headspace gauge in the photo below is a GO gauge and is used for a zero reference point for case headspace readings.

Also note that cases fired in gas operated rifles can end up longer than chamber headspace after they are ejected, and measuring shoulder bump gets tricky.

 

[K22]

You can use the Wilson gauge on your granite block stand with dial indicator. You can always return to zero when changing from another cartridge by zeroing the top of the gauge and it will repeat the same readings It's foolproof and the Wilson gauge is still very well made. You disregard trying to sight or using a straight edge or calipers on the gauge and if the case is below or above the top of the gauge surface it don't make any difference with the dial indicator it still measures it.

Interesting - I stand corrected about precisely measuring shoulder set back with a Wilson Gage, I just never envisioned using a dial indicator in conjunction with the gage but it seems that could work quite nicely.

Us old farts can appreciate the Wilson gage which drew attention to properly full length resizing. I've use mine for more years than I'd like to admit until I switched to the Hornady system.

 

[bigedp51]

You can use the Wilson gauge on your granite block stand with dial indicator. You can always return to zero when changing from another cartridge by zeroing the top of the gauge and it will repeat the same readings It's foolproof and the Wilson gauge is still very well made. You disregard trying to sight or using a straight edge or calipers on the gauge and if the case is below or above the top of the gauge surface it don't make any difference with the dial indicator it still measures it.

Interesting - I stand corrected about precisely measuring shoulder set back with a Wilson Gage, I just never envisioned using a dial indicator in conjunction with the gage but it seems that could work quite nicely.

Us old farts can appreciate the Wilson gage which drew attention to properly full length resizing. I've use mine for more years than I'd like to admit until I switched to the Hornady system.

If the case needs trimmed you can forget taking measurements as described, the case mouth will be resting on the flat surface and not on the shoulder of the gauge.

 

[bozo699]

Biged,
The only thing I don't like about Larry's tool it the name,...it is not a headspace gauge, either is any of the tools mentioned on here, there for checking what is needed for shoulder bump and has absolutely NOTHING!! WHATSOEVER!!! with headspace, there are separate tools and methods and tools for that.
Wayne.

bozo699

Ok I'm game, if you can measure chamber headspace which is the distance from the bolt face to the datum line in the chamber. WHY can't measuring from the base of the case to the shoulder of the case be called cartridge headspace and have something to do with headspace.

I don't know how well versed you are but at SavageShooters.com the brotherhood of the barrel nut uses cartridge cases and scotch tape to set their headspace. They also cry when they can't close their bolt on their full length resized cases. :'(

P.S. The headspace gauge in the photo below is a GO gauge and is used for a zero reference point for case headspace readings.

Also note that cases fired in gas operated rifles can end up longer than chamber headspace after they are ejected, and measuring shoulder bump gets tricky.

Yes this is a headspace gauge, all the other tools mentioned are for measuring the case from base to datum line for the purpose to bump the shoulder back and nothing at all to do with setting the headspace on a rifle, I have also used a case to set the headspace on a rifle and it worked out fine for me, you can call it headspace if you want but it is terminology, my friend Boyd Allen once told me the difference between Jam and touching, and it again is all in terminology, when your trying to tell someone say about headspace and there thinking shoulder bump then your not on the same page with each other and it's all because one of the two learned the wrong terminology, Bumping the shoulder back to keep proper headspace between the case and chamber are related to one another of course but two different things,..peas and carrots may go together, they may both be a vegtable but there not both grown from the same plant!
Wayne.

 

[DanConzo]

If the case is too long and bottoms out,you can use the Wilson or other make chamber type seating die base which is machined very well with a big hole on the bottom because it is made for the head of the case w/ a primer relief hole, just put it under the gauge (gauges are 1" dia and the bases hold them just like the 1" dia chamber seating dies) or if checking the case headspace after sizing you can trim the case first. These Wilson tools are very universal. There are many things you can do with the trimmer set-up too. One reason why is the quality built into them-their diameters and surfaces are held within .001". At least my Wilson stuff is.

 

[bozo699]

If the case is too long and bottoms out,you can use the Wilson or other make chamber type seating die base which is machined very well with a big hole on the bottom because it is made for the head of the case w/ a primer relief hole, just put it under the gauge (gauges are 1" dia and the bases hold them just like the 1" dia chamber seating dies) or if checking the case headspace after sizing you can trim the case first. These Wilson tools are very universal. There are many things you can do with the trimmer set-up too. One reason why is the quality built into them-their diameters and surfaces are held within .001". At least my Wilson stuff is.

I definitely agree with this statement
Wayne.

 

[DanConzo]

No use even discussing terminology here--most people know what we are talking about. I think most everyone knows what we are addressing here especially the OP.

 

[mac86951]

Yup, I don't see one as better than the other. I use an RCBS prec. mic. too and do so to adjust shoulder bump. You CAN do the same with the other gauges as well using your calipers which you should already have for reloading.

If I was to buy a custom chambered rifle, I'd have a Wilson type chamber cut for me too, best way to know for sure.

-Mac

 

[bozo699]

No use even discussing terminology here--most people know what we are talking about. I think most everyone knows what we are addressing here especially the OP.

Okay,
well I decided I want to call it seting up the whatcamacallit so the thingymabob doesnt have case seperation problems when I pull the little half circle thingy and I EXPECT you all to know what I am talking about, if your not willing to learn the language I have no clue how I or anyone else can help you,...anyway I have enjoyed your posts and agree with them for the most part, well work calls so I need to stop pushing these little square thingy's with letters on them and grab my satual full of funny looking objects that remove screws and whatnot and go repair some bullet presses before we get even further behind on the little pills that go in the thingy that goes bang when the half circle thingy is pressed
Wayne.

 

[DanConzo]

Well thanks Wayne.

 

[bigedp51]

Actually what we are doing is trying to keep the "air space" or "head clearance" between the bolt face and the rear of the case to a set minimum.

The red and yellow areas below represent the case stretching in the web area because we have too much "air space" or "head clearance" as the case stretches to meet the bolt face when fired.

(unless your name is bozo699 and you lube your cases and double your bolt thrust) :

And the area in between the quotation marks is called a "Bazinga". ;D

And excess headspace has many forms.......................................
and this is what happens when you let bozo699 pour your beer.

 

[bozo699]

Actually what we are doing is trying to keep the "air space" or "head clearance" between the bolt face and the rear of the case to a set minimum.

The red and yellow areas below represent the case stretching in the web area because we have too much "air space" or "head clearance" as the case stretches to meet the bolt face when fired.

(unless your name is bozo699 and you lube your cases and double your bolt thrust) :

And the area in between the quotation marks is called a "Bazinga". ;D

And excess headspace has many forms.......................................
and this is what happens when you let bozo699 pour your beer.

Ed,
I was having a crappy night here at work tonight until I read your post, you have the ability to completely tick me off or keep me in stiches, I really like this one later my friend.
Wayne.

 

[bozo699]

Oh by the way ed your illustration is spot on!
Wayne.

 

[bigedp51]

Oh by the way ed your illustration is spot on!
Wayne.

All my headspace illustrations are spot on.

And remember bozo699 you need .250 headspace for proper jam. :

 

[BoydAllen]

Since there has been no official definition created for the clearance that keeps a case from being too tight between chamber shoulder and bolt face, and headspace is so commonly misused to describe this clearance, I have taken to writing cartridge or case "headspace", putting it in quotes. Although it can easily be argued that this may not be correct. I think that combining the use of quotes and the additional specification of case makes it clear to most readers what is being referred to. On the other hand, writing air space, or gap space, without a picture, might be less universally understood. Of course this only carries the authority of my opinion, nothing more.