Which barrel contour?
- Thread starter Hondo64d
- Start date
I don't think there is a finite answer, although you most likely will never get #1 and #2 contours to shoot small consistently after multiple shots. The fact is the accuracy potential of a given barrel is random, read Boyer's book and he has a 4 or 5 tier rating system for barrels. The very best barrels (aka hummers) are extremely rare, but I don't doubt there are "hummer" barrels in the lighter contours....but they are more difficult to confirm. FWIW, if you peruse through the Benchrest Match reports, the LV or LG often outshoot the heavier barreled HV or HG in aggregate and some records are smaller in the LV or LG classes than their HV or HG counterparts. You have to figure out what you want to accomplish and set some goals. This will go far in helping the smith get the build right. Then you have to do your part and learn condition reading to reap the most benefit from the build.
I'd really like to know if you now regularly use flags. Those sporter barreled guns just might surprise you if you steer them right.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
The reason for the lv outshooting the hv is hardly anybody shoots a hv gun anymore. Not in group anyway. Theyd rather have 2lv rifles. It sucks to finally get your hv shooting its best then whip out your lv and start over. The only hv rifles i see anymore are destined for score shooting
I appreciate all the replies. You guys are going to kill me... I finally did find a load for my 2b .308 barrel. 5 shots at 100 yards. OAL includes Sinclair "hex nut" bullet comparator. I WILL stand by my experience that it is MUCH more difficult to find a load that will do this in a light barrel than a #5 and up though...
John
John
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
I am very superstitious about some things, such as handing a pocket knife back the way it was handed to me, etc. So, when I want to shoot small groups, I will opt for a Shilen #5 contour, and a #4 can be iffy, will consult the Ouija Board first.
I would defer to Dusty Stevens opinion.
I just got through working up a load for a Krieger 4 groove ss #2 contour in 308 with .090 freebore, 22" in length. It was hard to find small groups, but 3/4"-1.25" groups were easy to attain. I finally found a load with 41g of Benchmark with a 165g Nosler ballistic tip that shot tiny clover leafs...I had just about given up with regular powders and bullets, then hit the home run.
That is kinda the way it went for me too. This is the only light barrel I have ever had that I found a load for that will group five shots like the photo above. That includes a #2 Hart, three #2 Douglas Premiums and three Bartlein 2Bs. I was beginning to think a light barrel simply wouldn't do it. The group above says it they can, but I still maintain that it is a rare thing.
John
Hondo,
I keep bumping into your old hunting rifle barrel contour threads in my google searches. I also agonize over accuracy vs. balance as it relates to custom rifles. This said, I just had a new 280ai rifle build started with a 2b. I have been able to get a hunting build 6.5x47 to shoot tiny 3 shot groups with a 23” Bartlein 2b. A 24” 280ai in 2b contour likely will not be as lucky. I have owned 3 other 280ai’s with slightly larger contour barrels. One was built with a 24” #3 Bartlein in an ultralight Manners stock. This rifle drove me crazy as it felt very nose heavy. I went against my very good gunsmith’s advice on this build. He suggested a #3 Bartlein contour. I am hopeful that I can find a load that will consistently shoot 3 shot 100y groups under .5”. It is insanity to agonize over a few tenths of an inch group differences in a hunting rifle. Nonetheless it was a tough decision for me to take balance and weight over a greater chance of bughole accuracy with a larger contour barrel. I remain hopeful that this new rifle will be a ringer and my agonizing proven pointless.
I keep bumping into your old hunting rifle barrel contour threads in my google searches. I also agonize over accuracy vs. balance as it relates to custom rifles. This said, I just had a new 280ai rifle build started with a 2b. I have been able to get a hunting build 6.5x47 to shoot tiny 3 shot groups with a 23” Bartlein 2b. A 24” 280ai in 2b contour likely will not be as lucky. I have owned 3 other 280ai’s with slightly larger contour barrels. One was built with a 24” #3 Bartlein in an ultralight Manners stock. This rifle drove me crazy as it felt very nose heavy. I went against my very good gunsmith’s advice on this build. He suggested a #3 Bartlein contour. I am hopeful that I can find a load that will consistently shoot 3 shot 100y groups under .5”. It is insanity to agonize over a few tenths of an inch group differences in a hunting rifle. Nonetheless it was a tough decision for me to take balance and weight over a greater chance of bughole accuracy with a larger contour barrel. I remain hopeful that this new rifle will be a ringer and my agonizing proven pointless.
My latest hunting build has a Bartlein #3 and It seems I finally found the best compromise between repeatable precision and portability in a hunting rifle. When doing initial load development at 500 yards, I tried five different combos, one of them a factory load. Every one of them shot less than .6 MOA at 500 yards. The #3 Bartlein is not a light barrel, but it’s weight is offset by the stock having an adjustable comb, so it balances pretty well. Not a lightweight rig, but I took it on a DIY Alaska Caribou hunt in August. Never once wished I was carrying a lighter rig, but more than once wished I was in better shape!
John
John
Nice job on the diy caribou! Where in AK did you take it? Walking across the tundra is tough without carrying anything. I spent a bunch of time crossing the tundra when I was a much younger fly out fishing guide. I went “ass over tea kettle” more than once. I may have a long range/target rifle built one day. I am trying to limit my guns to only ones that I will regularly use. I am also trying to have guns that my son will use in the next few years. Right now he is thrilled with his Tikka youth 7mm-08. My Borden built 280ai had a Hart #3 contour barrel. It shot under .5moa. As I said earlier, I am hopeful that I will find a load that gets me a consistent POA and 3 shot group. Jim Borden told me that light barreled rifles could shoot as well as heavier barreled rifles. He said that they were harder to find good loads for and exposed the shooter technique. I had a brief run with a 5lb NULA rifle. I was an inexperienced hand loader and a barely average shot. I could not keep the rifle under 3/4” at 100y for 3 shots. The guy who I sold it to sent me a picture of a 1/2” 5 shot group that he shot with my rifle. He had a backyard range and let it completely cool between shots. Apparently the shooter is a major variable in rifle accuracy.
Old Navy
Gold $$ Contributor
Amend! Thought no one was going to say it.
Hondo, I am still running into your threads with my very narrow searches. I just googled the Origin action comments and reviews. Came up with your new build. We also share a gunsmith. Jon is now building me a 280ai. Your new build looks awesome. Something similar may be my 3rd cf hunting rifle. I am committed to keeping a low inventory of the best (for my uses) hunting rifles available. I have sold a bunch of very good rifles at a loss in this pursuit.
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Great idea if you are using an efficient cartridge and do not need as high of velocity as practical for hunting. Everything less than a heavy tactical or target build with a 28” barrel is a trade off.
Isn’t this the niche that carbon fiber barrels fill nicely? Benefits of a larger diameter with the weight of a sporter contour?
I put a proof barrel on my last hunting rig and the .308 loads I developed for it are holding 5 shot groups at 0.5 MOA
I put a proof barrel on my last hunting rig and the .308 loads I developed for it are holding 5 shot groups at 0.5 MOA
While little cloverleaf 3 shot groups are pretty to look at, i don't feel they show the true potential of a hunting rifle.
The better indicator would be the cold bore grouping.
Set up target, shoot 1 round, leave.
Next day shoot 1 round, leave.
Repeat the next 3 days.
Other than this, get a full on target setup.
The better indicator would be the cold bore grouping.
Set up target, shoot 1 round, leave.
Next day shoot 1 round, leave.
Repeat the next 3 days.
Other than this, get a full on target setup.
Some folks (like me) want to shoot their hunting rigs more often and having repeatability and accuracy is important, especially when developing loads for them.
Besides, having a hunting rifle that prints cloverleafs doesn’t mean it can’t have first shot cold bore accuracy, does it?
My first 600 yard F-Open match was done using a fairly stock Stevens 200. With factory barrel.
Ideal for that type of shooting? Absolutely not. But it's what i had.
This was a gun that regularly put 5 rounds in just over 3/4" at 100 yards.
Was it a perfectly acceptable hunting rifle?
The doe i took at 413 yards would proove yes.
I have a custom Mauser with 1.5 contour barrel that i don't hunt with. Just too much weight at 10 lbs for me to want to lug around for miles.
The same barrel length and contour barrel on my Forbes 24B weighing under 7 lbs goes hunting with me often.
Ideal for that type of shooting? Absolutely not. But it's what i had.
This was a gun that regularly put 5 rounds in just over 3/4" at 100 yards.
Was it a perfectly acceptable hunting rifle?
The doe i took at 413 yards would proove yes.
I have a custom Mauser with 1.5 contour barrel that i don't hunt with. Just too much weight at 10 lbs for me to want to lug around for miles.
The same barrel length and contour barrel on my Forbes 24B weighing under 7 lbs goes hunting with me often.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
First shot goes to the same place as the second and third- thats cold bore accuracy
exactly
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