Which 4 cals in a Remington 700 for 1/2" MOA??

[Jtate]

I have been very lucky with model 700 walmart $389 specials in 308, 243, and 30 06. I bed them with pillars and add a good trigger. It is also important to relieve the barrel channel, everyone I have worked on so far from the factory the barrel is never centered in the channel.. Then tune a load to that rifle, with the limits of the box magazine you have very little flexibility in seating depth so you need a forgiving ogive shape. Sometimes I may need to try 4 or 5 different powders to get them to shoot, but so far I have alway been able to find a load that will consistently shoot a 1/2 or better three shot group at a 100.

 

[Will Henry]

About 40 years ago I won a Remington 700 Varmint in 308, at the Canadian SS. I got the rifle home, glass bedded it and loaded twenty rounds with 41 gr 4895 and some 168 Sierras. The first five shot group went into .369, the next was .430 and the last right at .4.It was a good shooter. The most accurate 700 I ever saw was one of these owned by Al Mirdoch, the maker of McCracken bullets.
So the 308 would be my first choice with the 6.5CM a close second. WH

 

[joshb]

Alright guys! I’m clear headed and I’ve had my coffee! I’ll find my records and see if I was just dreaming how well they shoot. My memory is a little fuzzy these days.

 

[Chedward]

One thing you said has me curious, where do you buy 850.00 barrels plus smithing? I want to avoid any barrel at that amount. Truthfully the Remington 308 5 r rifle will fill the bill without doing anything to it.It comes in a HS precision with an adjustable trigger for now.

Yeah you’re gunsmith might be ripping you off a bit if you’re paying 850 for a barrel and smithing to put it on. I always prefer barrels from gunsmiths, but I’ve had really good luck with pre fit barrels and nuts to tighten them. I believe my savage prefit in 6.5 creed ran me about 350-400 and I was able to get 1/2 MOA out of it easy. I’ve only ever had 1 factory barrel shoot 1/2 MOA and that was a tikka.

 

[nakneker]

Out of the four cartridges you mention there’s no wrong choice. A few years back my Dad bought a Remington 308 5R, the first gen heavy barrel with the black and green stock. The rifle shot so good that me and my cousin bought one too, all three rifles shoot under .5 with a variety of loads. I still see them on gunbroker now and again, if interested PM me and I’ll look for one.

 

[Gary in MD]

I’d bet that the OP meant $850 for the barrel and smithing combined.....
Just sayin’

 

[dgroen65]

You are aware that Remington liquidated all assets and is currently not making rifles, right? There are still a few out there for sale, but you'll probably have to focus on used if you want a Remington 700 now.

 

[Baron23]

I too have a Rem 700 5R SS Gen 2 in .308 (don't you love the endless long crap names the marketing guys come up with! haha).

All I have done to it is bed the action into the HS bedding block (action was only touching the block in two very small places), put in a Jewell trigger, and put on a muzzle brake.

I'm not a very good shooter....seriously, absolutely not one of you .25 MOA all day long kind of guys.

But this is an example of a better day for me with this gun and I'm very happy with this Rem 700 though I do understand the concern about getting one that's an actual shooter.

This is at 200 yds (setting a 200 yd zero for hunting) with Hornady factory ELD-X 178 gr factory cartridges. there was a bit of variable breeze that day.

 

[K22]

I can relate with much of what you say, as it kind of verifies my own experience with various sporters;

I'd use an H-S composite VSF/Sendero stock to test accuracy potential. My best 308 groups is also with IMR 4064, and shooting IMR4064 with BR2's. But 3/4" 5-shot groups is with a light 18.5" chrome lined barrel in an AR10. It's comparing apples to oranges with a bolt action.

Yes, doing 5-shot 1/2" groups with my 3 custom barreled 700's requires very intensive handloading that includes weighing bullets, annealing, concentricity measurement, etc. Wind flags, quality cradle, consistant hold, and letting the barrel cool between shots is all essential. 3-shots groups don't mean jack to me. To each his own.

"You didn't say what the rifle will be used for and that would influence my decision / advice."
I enjoy firing 1/2" 5-shot groups at the public 100yard range. But my goal this time is to build it in a lighter "sniper" style rifle. I will add a DM bottom metal to take AIC mags. I want to know it's powerful and capable of long range shots too. I kind of like the 280 cartridge without the belt, which is right below a 7mmMag in power. But I agree with Jackie, JoshB, and others that the 308 is maybe a better bet. (plus I have all the dies for it already)

When you start getting in the 1/2 moa to sub 1/2 moa range bullet tension consistency starts to become an issue to consider. The guys I know (bench guys) that shoot exclusively for small groups, use bushing dies and turn necks to create uniform bullet tension. They also anneal their cases. I don't do either but I pay close attention to sizing and bumping the shoulder back.

While I have a few rifles that will shoot in the 1/2 moa range, namely a Rem 700 with a heavy Douglas Match barrel and a Weatherby Super Varmint Master, both in 223 Rem, this is probably more luck that a statement about my reloading process or bench skill since I spend most of my range time shooting off shooting sticks to simulate my shooting under field condition, i.e. I'm primarily a varmint and predator hunter. Sounds like you're already on board with a precision reloading procedure.

Since you're only interested in groups the 308 has a lot of match level bullets to chooses from so this may be another good reason to chose the 308.

 

[Ken H.]

Out of the four cartridges you mention there’s no wrong choice. A few years back my Dad bought a Remington 308 5R, the first gen heavy barrel with the black and green stock. The rifle shot so good that me and my cousin bought one too, all three rifles shoot under .5 with a variety of loads. I still see them on gunbroker now and again, if interested PM me and I’ll look for one.

I may purchase a new 308 rifle. What is the name of the Rem 308 you guys purchased? I have 2 M700's that were customs (280 Rem and 6.5 CM).
Can't afford a custom at this time so I am trying to decide what out of the box gun would be the best. Thank you so much!

 

[joshb]

OK, I dug thru my old book of targets from my early days. I bought my first “target gun”. The 308 5R Tenth Anniversary that I shot these targets with. These were load work ups using Lake City and Federal resized machine gun brass, using my “new fancy” RCBS Competition dies. The rifle was bone stock as it came from the factory and shot off sand bags. Back then, I didn’t even know that changing primers affected a load and made my loads to COL, measuring from base to the tip of the bullet! I was green but the gun shot well for me.

 

[alchemist]

The Metallic Silhouette Shooters developed the 7mm-08 for their game. It is very accurate with 140, 150, and 168 grain bullets. I have shot the 7mm-08 for forty years with no complaints. My first rifle in this caliber was a Remington target barrel for Hunter class bench for score. The rifle action was glass bedded, the barrel free floated, and the trigger pull lightened to 21 oz. It would shoot 0.3 to 0.5 inch five shot groups if I did my part. I could hold my own as long as I did not shoot against custom made rifles. I could usually score 238 to to 242 with this rifle.

The second rifle was about 25 years old and was a model 7, stainless steel, synthetic stock with a floated barrel. It would shoot 0.5 to 0.8 inch five shot groups.

Since you already have a 308, this would be a good choice.

 

[rkittine]

For me it would be a .308. Only mods then I would think you would need are - Bed the action, float the barrel and replace the trigger. No new stock or barrel. Then work up your loads.

Bob

 

[joshb]

I just found a pic of my 5 shot “wallet group”! I shot this during scope sight in at 50 yards with a “new” scope, bullet and powder. Vihtavouri 135 at 37.3 grains behind a Sierra 168! This group lit the fire that started me down the rabbit hole!

 

[nakneker]

I may purchase a new 308 rifle. What is the name of the Rem 308 you guys purchased? I have 2 M700's that were customs (280 Rem and 6.5 CM).
Can't afford a custom at this time so I am trying to decide what out of the box gun would be the best. Thank you so much!

I sent you a PM with a link to the last one I bought a couple months ago. Attached is a stock picture. I did a quick search and didn’t see any listed but they come up often. If you find one I’m happy to share some of the loads we’ve had a good success with too.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Evidently folks don't read the entire OP statement before answering. I have a lot of experience with the 7/08 (silhouette shooting) and the .280. I have found 7/08s a bit picky. Well, a lot picky. I have found the.280's not picky, easy to tune with multiple bullets and powders.My favorite 280 deer rifle shoots back to back 3 shot groups 5/8 to 3/4 groups at 200 yds. Bullets most often used 139 Horn Spire Points, 140 Nosler BT, 150 Swift Sirroco, Sierra 168 MK, 160 gr. Speed BTSP , loaded most often with either RL19 or 4831, or 4831SC. Always magnum primers. Stock 700 BDL, bedded, Hart varmint weight barrel.6.5x20EFR Leupold. Lot's of dead dear our to almost 800yds. All 1 shot kills. Get a .280. My son has a twin I made for him. Similar results with that one also except he also kills elk with his(lives is Idaho).

 

[Fast14riot]

Of the 4 you mention, I think you'll be served well enough with some tuning. But, do consider the 260 Rem as well. Easy to tune, accurate, lots of available bullets for hunting or target (as with 6.5cm) but brass can be made easily from several options like 308, 708, 243 if needed.

I will also second the thought of a RemAge prefit with a barrel nut. I have two and they're shooters. 350 bucks and less than an hour of your time and you're up and running.

 

[cw308]

I bought a Rem.700 LTR in 308 around 15 years ago , it was a tack driver at 200 yards , once I had 4000+ rounds through the barrel I had a M24 5R with a 11:27 twist , completely blueprinted , HS Precision full size stock and a Jewell trigger set at 10 ounces . It's my one and only benchrest shooter , love shooting it . I have friends who love the 6.5 CM also a tack driver but a barrel burner compared to the 308.

 

[Baron23]

What is the name of the Rem 308 you guys purchased?

Rem 700 5R SS Gen 2 in .308

 

[INTJ]

I can relate with much of what you say, as it kind of verifies my own experience with various sporters;

I'd use an H-S composite VSF/Sendero stock to test accuracy potential. My best 308 groups is also with IMR 4064, and shooting IMR4064 with BR2's. But 3/4" 5-shot groups is with a light 18.5" chrome lined barrel in an AR10. It's comparing apples to oranges with a bolt action.

Yes, doing 5-shot 1/2" groups with my 3 custom barreled 700's requires very intensive handloading that includes weighing bullets, annealing, concentricity measurement, etc. Wind flags, quality cradle, consistant hold, and letting the barrel cool between shots is all essential. 3-shots groups don't mean jack to me. To each his own.

"You didn't say what the rifle will be used for and that would influence my decision / advice."
I enjoy firing 1/2" 5-shot groups at the public 100yard range. But my goal this time is to build it in a lighter "sniper" style rifle. I will add a DM bottom metal to take AIC mags. I want to know it's powerful and capable of long range shots too. I kind of like the 280 cartridge without the belt, which is right below a 7mmMag in power. But I agree with Jackie, JoshB, and others that the 308 is maybe a better bet. (plus I have all the dies for it already)

I am not trying to make you mad but to give you some info to consider. Take it for what you will.

If you consider an occasional 5-shot 1/2" group at 100 yds the goal then you are fine. However police/sniper/sporter style rifles in the calibers you mention are not usually consistent 1/2" 100 yd 5-shot group guns. Years ago I remember arguing with a Sierra tech decades ago who told me the same thing but I didn't want to hear it.

Since then I have had dozens of those rifles, both in factory and custom guns, and nothing about how they are shot that makes them true on demand 1/2 MOA rifles, unless you get lucky. (Granted, you did say you were hoping to get lucky.) I became very frustrated because I would get one .2" group at 100 yds then a bunch of .7s. This was initially with Senderos in 7mm RM and 300 Win. I would make sure the barrel was cold, be steady and consistent, and thought I was being precise about loading.

So then I started building using custom barrels and trued actions carefully bedded in HS Precision and McMillan stocks built by accuracy gunsmiths. These guns didn't really shoot much better than the Senderos, but eventually, having rifles built using CRF M-70 actions, good stocks, and good barrels I was able to get consistent 3/4 MOA (3-shot groups) out of 7.5 - 8.5 (w/scope) hunting rifles. I was able to get long range hunting rifle there, but it had a Palma contour barrel, I bedded it stress free, and it weighed 12 lbs with the scope.

When I started competition shooting I learned how to load and shoot a rifle accurately. Only some of what you mentioned above is what allows consistent small groups. Why is that?

1. A VSF/Sendero stock is not an accuracy stock, it is a compromise stock that works okay in several shooting positions. If you really want to shoot small groups then you need a stock designed for that.

2. Weighing bullets has no effect on accuracy. What's important with bullets is consistency of bearing surface and shape. A base to ogive measurement is excellent for that, I personally measure them in two places for the competition guns.

3. Annealing doesn't really help accuracy, but it does extend brass life and is worth doing.

4. Concentricity might matter a little, but I don't worry about concentricity anymore and I have real sub 1/4 MOA at 200 yd 5-shot groups guns.

5. I don't know what a quality cradle is, but best groups usually come from high quality front and rear rests that are set up to allow the gun to track consistently, allowing the ability to shoot fast enough to keep the 5-shot group in the same micro condition.

6. Consistent gun handling is indeed critical, but it is hard to do that with a VSF/Sendero stock off the bench

7. Wind flags are always a good idea

8. A real target gun groups as well when the barrel is hot as it does when cold. A gun that only shoots 5-shot groups well when it's cold isn't worth much. Now a hunting rifle that shoots one or two to the aimpoint each time from a cold barrel is very useful. But it's pointless to have a rifle that can only shoot 5-shot groups from a cold barrel in perfect conditions.

Given all the above, I'd still recommend a heavy barreled rifle in 6.5 Creed or .308 or better yet, 6mm BR. That rifle will weigh 8-9 lbs without scope or rings and will shoot as well as any non-target rifle will.