Where would you go from here?

[romad97]

I am having 1 heck of a time developing a load for my new tikka t3 25-06, 22 inch barrel 1 in 10 twist. I first tried some barnes ttsx 80gr and after about 100 bullets I got nothing close to acceptable. This is my second attempt with a different bullet, 117gr sierra btsp. I am using winchester brass, winlr primers, and IMR 4831. Do any of these loads show any potential. My first thought process is that there is nothing close here but, maybe someone else might see something I am not seeing. These were all seated .010 off the lands.

 

[jonbearman]

Are you shooting off bags or a rest?

 

[romad97]

Using a bipod and a bag.

 

[Terry]

Two test lead to good groups, the ladder test and the seating depth test. This assumes starting with a bullet the gun will stabilize.
Try these and let us know.

 

[romad97]

I have never understood the seating depth test though unless you already have a charge that is half way decent? Please explain as I fully admit that I am a newbie to reloading.

 

[JamesnTN]

What dies are you using, maybe try another powder say 4350 instead of 4831. Are you using wind flags and another thing is how are you holding the rifle and squeezing the trigger every time. Gun handling is also very important to accuracy.

 

[timeout]

Two test lead to good groups, the ladder test and the seating depth test. This assumes starting with a bullet the gun will stabilize.
Try these and let us know.

I would normally agree Terry, but these targets look like trying to shoot a ladder test would tell nothing. No way to pick a node with bullets going willy nilly everywhere. This reminds me of my 25-06 Remington with the factory barrel. I tried several bullets and 3 powders. No way would the rifle shoot a satisfactory group. The cure was a custom barrel. I now shoot Berger 115's and H4831SC.

 

[JBO]

Two test lead to good groups, the ladder test and the seating depth test. This assumes starting with a bullet the gun will stabilize.
Try these and let us know.

I would normally agree Terry, but these targets look like trying to shoot a ladder test would tell nothing. No way to pick a node with bullets going willy nilly everywhere. This reminds me of my 25-06 Remington with the factory barrel. I tried several bullets and 3 powders. No way would the rifle shoot a satisfactory group. The cure was a custom barrel. I now shoot Berger 115's and H4831SC.

I agree, the answer to his question, "Where do you go from here?" would be... a gunsmith.

Just for my own peace of mind before I would do that I would try a little more powder charge and see if that starts pulling the group together.

 

[artbosco]

Using a bipod and a bag.

While working up the load, remove the bipod, work off a cement bench, and use windflags for starters. Most bipods are notorious for movement. Remember, .001" of movement at the rifle, usually moves point of impact on the target, 1/4 inch at 100 yards. The more movement the worst POI becomes. Use front and rear bags that are full but not as hard as a rock. Remove any sling swivel studs too.

 

[snowpro440]

Move the powder charge up at 3/10 of a grain and keep going till you see pressure to see if your group moves closer together. Then adjust seating depth a little at a time, as this should put you on track. Make sure you shoot off bags with no wind an on a solid rest.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

I am having 1 heck of a time developing a load for my new tikka t3 25-06, 22 inch barrel 1 in 10 twist. I first tried some barnes ttsx 80gr and after about 100 bullets I got nothing close to acceptable. This is my second attempt with a different bullet, 117gr sierra btsp. ...

How does your rifle shoot with factory ammo? I remember struggling to get 2 inch groups at 100yds with my Ruger MKII in .25-06 at 100yds using a variety of factory ammo. My rifle's performance was adequate for red deer. What are you trying to shoot with your rifle?

Regards
JCS

 

[M14AMU]

Are you able to 'call' your shots??

If not....that's part of the problem!

 

[kyreloader]

Barnes TSX/TTSX usually like to be a little farther off of the lands. The company even recommends that you start your load workup 50 thous off the lands. I think if you move them 50 thous off the lands and repeat your powder test, you should find something that works well.

Regarding your powder, in my experience with a .25-06 (second barrel now), for 80-100g bullets, I was able to get better precision with a little faster powder. 4350 of some variety or around that burn rate seems to shoot best for me with that bullet weight. I have also had good luck with Varget with the 80g TTSX. I think the 4831s and slower work great for the 115g varieties(I use Retumbo for my 115g Berger HVLDs).

Hope this helps, pm if I can help more.

 

[seymour fish]

Good chance you are copper-fouled badly from the Barnes. Clean it, then borescope it. Barnes closer than .050 is a no-no==Pressure. Does your brass begin to reflect that ? The 1:10 should prefer 100-120 gr range bullet weights in general. RL-22 is often extremely accurate with these weights. Burried in the noise is a hint you are too close to the lands. If this is a relatively lightweight rig, the advice you have received re: shooting off the bench is sound, if you are proficient at that. If not, try a hunting hold. Firm into the shoulder pocket, firm pistol grip and forend grip, same pressures every where every time, bracing with sandbags off the bench. The 110 gr Fowler flatbase is superb. If the rig wont shoot it, there is a problem. Seymour

 

[romad97]

I really appreciate all the advice. I will try to load up a little hotter and shoot off bags. In regards to the barnes, these pictures are from sierra 117gr BTSP's. I gave up on the barnes for now. The only reason that I stopped at 52 was becouse the sierra data actually says 51 is max. I did not see any pressure signs but, I am fairly new to reloading and I do not want to mess something up when it comes to safety.

 

[nastynatesfish]

I started mine by loading rounds from 2gr under book max to 1gr over book max. Start with bullet either at lands or just off. Fire slow, take your accurate loads and adjust seating depth in 10thousands at a time in 3 shot groups. Check to se which was more accurate than the others. Continue with seating depth until happy. I do that with all my rifles. Started it with bergers load work up and use it for all my bullets now. I went through a lot of bullets in my 2506 before I parted it out. I could never get it to shoot better than 7/8-1"

 

[Syncrowave]

If you've tried a lot of different charges of 4831, I would try a different powder ... and different primers. IME, sometimes you need to try a LOT of different combos to find one your gun likes, definitely more than the five I see. I would consider myself very lucky to find something that worked in just five combos.

Are you seating bullets to contact the throat? I've usually done best trying that first (but be sure to work up your charges when seating to contact the lands, as it raises pressures).

If you're new to using a bipod, I would also ditch the bipod and use bags for the time being, at least for trying to find a load/node.

Good luck.

 

[searcher]

Several years ago when forced to switch to lead-free, I bought all available lead-free bullets for a half-dozen rifles/calibers and spent several weeks at the range doing ladder tests, adjusting seating depths, powder changes, etc. I ended up with the Barnes X bullets and TTSX bullets in all of my rifles. It was NOT as easy as finding loads with leaded bullets. I believe that, while the lead-free bullets can end up being just as accurate (or more) than their leaded counterparts, they are not prone to liking whatever powder you want to try. They have definite preferences - and moreso than leaded bullets. I have a custom bolt repeater that shot groups just as big as those you show in your photos with many of the loads I threw at it. It ended up with shooting nice 3/8" - 4/10th" 5-shot groups. Only after the fourth powder change and depth adjustments. I strongly recommend following the Barnes load data for their suggested powders and seating depths (even if it seems like a mile off the lands) for starters. If they don't work - then move on. I found that the Barnes suggested powders worked the best more often than not. I'd start with 3-shot groups for laddering - going back to five and more only to retest promising loads. You will typically have far more "bad" groups with lead-free so no use in shooting more than needed. If that leaded bullet you tested was the only leaded one tested so far - I'd not be overly concerned so far. On a powder change, try to make your changes based not just on "using another " powder, but rather trying one with a different burning rate.

 

[ebb]

I have a Ruger 77 in 25-06 and it wouldn't shoot anything but 115 Nosler BTs with Accurate 3100 powder. They don't make 3100 anymore so I tried H4831 and it doesn't shoot as good as it did before with the other powder. So I wouldn't give up yet, look at other powders and try the BTs.

 

[romad97]

I checked the rifle over, everything is tight. Scope is a proven scope, I used it on a 22-250 for a while and it tracked perfectly, its a nikon monarch and I have been pleased with it. I checked rings, bases etc... everything checked out. I went ahead and loaded up 52gr again and played with the seating depth. I started at 3.13 which is right at the lands and backed them down in .010 increments. I only fired 3 groups as my shoulder was beggining to get sore. I have been doing a whole lot of shooting lately. Anyway, the results yielded about the same as my previous 52gr at 3.13 OAL did, 2 touching with 1 flyer. Should at 3.12 the group opened up quite a bit. Should I keep going down with it or should I play with the charge in .2 or .5 grain increments? Or by these results does it look like i am wasting my time on this one?