Where should the seating die contact the bullet

[M-61]

"And the hits just keep on coming."

Lt. Daniel Kaffee (TomCruise) 'A Few Good Men'

 

[dkhunt14]

Matt, that was rather rude of you. There is another reloading forum that has maxed out on socially dysfunctional members. Someone asked about casting chambers; I could say I can not believe they were so rude to him but had I said that I would be lying, I expected it. I apologized to him on behalf of the forum and then contacted him off-line. POINT? There was no one on that forum that could cast a chamber; with one exception. Anyhow, that shooter could not believe it was possible, and those rude members? They still do not know how to case a chamber.

The shooter asked me what was wrong with all of those members on the other forum; I told him they were lonely and threatened by someone that knew more than they did.

And they asked me: "Who do you think you are?" "No one gave you permission to apologies for us".

F. Guffey

You were asked many times to tell answers and you never answered one of them. Just the same old stuff over and over. It is rude of you not to answer just like it was of me poking fun. When someone asks me something I always try to answer. Matt

 

[LHSmith]

They still do not know how to case a chamber.


F. Guffey

Well, I am here to learn. Could you tell me how to case a chamber? Is it anything akin to chambering a case? If so, then nevermind.

 

[jfseaman]

It's obvious that there is an old feud between @fguffey and @dkhunt14 + @M-61

Please take it somewhere else.

If you want to talk about CBTO and how to get consistancy. Sorting bullets by BTO, seater contact points and explain you technique. Join in.

 

[M-61]

It's not a feud. It's a failure by him to answer questions to his responses. Simple. I'm not going anywhere.

 

[/VH]

I also have the Green sorter organizer from RCBS.

F. Guffey

I use the Green sorter organizer from Bob.

I also turn necks, leave the carbon in them, 'sterilize' my brass on a Benchsource after every firing and seat with a Wilson seater die. It seems to work very well, seated CBTO length is very consistent.

 

[LHSmith]

It's obvious that there is an old feud between @fguffey and @dkhunt14 + @M-61

Please take it somewhere else.

If you want to talk about CBTO and how to get consistancy. Sorting bullets by BTO, seater contact points and explain you technique. Join in.

You are certainly free to choose which posters advice you wish to follow....but I always heed Matt's (dkhunt14) advice and almost always in agreement with M-61. I do know for fact that Guffey has no clue on modern day Benchrest accuracy techniques. Matt, who I have had the pleasure of meeting, is a longtime LR BR competitor who has been very successful and he is the REAL deal- he knows this stuff inside and out....not the type of poster who searches the web to answer peoples questions. Perhaps Frank Guffey has helped a shooter or two, but I find his explanations difficult to follow and IMHO he tends to send the OP down the wrong path.
Should you decide to follow guffey's advice (after you decipher his posts into something tangible) by all means tell us how well that works out for you. We have been trying to break his code for years.

 

[Intheshop]

Take this sorta with a grain of salt.....

Seating cast rifle bullets;if the seating stem isn't a perfect match to ogive.....because of the soft bullet,you're gonna see the results immediately.Ranges from just unsightly "marks" to,plowing up some lead.

So,even though an ill fitting stem may not "show" on jacketed bullets....will say it's still at issue.Best of luck,BW.

 

[fguffey]

No feud, how is it possible not to like him? I do not know him.

Where should it contact?
What is the optimal contact location?

I made an effort that he is totally unaware of. Optimal contact location: I said the diameter of the hole in the seating plug determines the contact point. Many times I have seen the question about the ring around the bullet caused by the seating plug, changing the contact point requires a change in diameter. And then there is that part we should all know about, that is the radius, the radius makes the seating plug bullet friendly.

Half way between? Reloaders used the 'half way between' when the thought they had it all figured out with head space; and we all know the case does not have head space but reloaders were claiming the datum was half way between the shoulder/neck juncture and shoulder/case body juncture, and I wondered how that was possible when the 25/06, 270, 280, 30/06 and 8mm06 use the same datum meaning the location of the datum had nothing to do with half way between the two junctures. Again? I have the RCBS green assortment case for seating dies, When changing seating dies out side of the box with the designated number I have to be sure the seating plug dies not hit the case neck.

A reloader can change the contact point by shorting the seating plug if the hole has a radius, the reloader can change the contact point by increasing the diameter of the hole in the seating plug and if they are concerned about bullet friendly part they can bevel the hole.

One more time, I am the fan of 'all the bullet hold I can get meaning if I do not have a lot on contact between the bullet sand seating plug I am going to get rings around the bullet.

One more time, my favorite seating dies are the dies with the hole in the side, the guide that sits on the shoulder of the case aligns the bullet with the case neck.

And the then I made a seater, it has no die body, I can use the seater with a can crusher if I control the seating depth, I can use a bottle corker, I can use a bottle capper, same thing, if I control the seating depth. Anyhow, there is no way the bullet can get sideways and the alignment tween the bullet and case neck is absolute.

F. Guffey

 

[LHSmith]

And the then I made a seater, it has no die body, I can use the seater with a can crusher if I control the seating depth, I can use a bottle corker, I can use a bottle capper, same thing, if I control the seating depth. Anyhow, there is no way the bullet can get sideways and the alignment tween the bullet and case neck is absolute.

F. Guffey

Yes, you could also go back further in the dark ages and load round bullets through the muzzle end on top of a load of 2F powder. Those who wish to load for optimum accuracy in modern day CF rifles have advanced these days and use tooling and techniques that afford the reloader to obtain "consistent" bullet tension.....don't think a can crusher or bottle capper will do that for you. Actually I know so- my first in-line seater press was a bottle capper.

 

[fguffey]

Fred, what part of 'half way between' do you not understand? And then there is that ugly thing about 'the datum', there has to be something about 'the datum' that that reloaders do not understand. Seating bullets with any tool that contacts the bullet has to do with datums. I make datums, I collect datums and on occasions I have been know to purchase datums, I did not pay much for them because the dealer/seller did not know what they were.

F. Guffey

 

[ireload2]

Got a bullet drawing with a datum on it?
Are you familiar with ASME Y14.5M?

Fred, what part of 'half way between' do you not understand? And then there is that ugly thing about 'the datum', there has to be something about 'the datum' that that reloaders do not understand. Seating bullets with any tool that contacts the bullet has to do with datums. I make datums, I collect datums and on occasions I have been know to purchase datums, I did not pay much for them because the dealer/seller did not know what they were.

F. Guffey

 

[Eddie Harren]

Fred, what part of 'half way between' do you not understand? And then there is that ugly thing about 'the datum', there has to be something about 'the datum' that that reloaders do not understand. Seating bullets with any tool that contacts the bullet has to do with datums. I make datums, I collect datums and on occasions I have been know to purchase datums, I did not pay much for them because the dealer/seller did not know what they were.


Guffey, I'd like to purchase several of your datums. Please reply with available ogives and radius. My bullets are cast from mercury and aluminium. Very hard and deadly.

 

[jfseaman]

Fred, what part of 'half way between' do you not understand? And then there is that ugly thing about 'the datum', there has to be something about 'the datum' that that reloaders do not understand. Seating bullets with any tool that contacts the bullet has to do with datums. I make datums, I collect datums and on occasions I have been know to purchase datums, I did not pay much for them because the dealer/seller did not know what they were.

F. Guffey

Guffy,

You were asked privately to stay off this thread.

Your innuendo based insult is not important. You are not contributing.

Please stay off my threads or I will report you to the admin.

 

[6MMsteve]

Matt, that was rather rude of you. There is another reloading forum that has maxed out on socially dysfunctional members. Someone asked about casting chambers; I could say I can not believe they were so rude to him but had I said that I would be lying, I expected it. I apologized to him on behalf of the forum and then contacted him off-line. POINT? There was no one on that forum that could cast a chamber; with one exception. Anyhow, that shooter could not believe it was possible, and those rude members? They still do not know how to case a chamber.

The shooter asked me what was wrong with all of those members on the other forum; I told him they were lonely and threatened by someone that knew more than they did.

And they asked me: "Who do you think you are?" "No one gave you permission to apologies for us".

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

You were asked privately to stay off this thread.

You also suggested we take it somewhere else and privately before the dysfunctional got involved I made an offer to help, I also said I had tools I am going to sell if you were interested, you choose to ignore my offer so I deleted the offer.

Think about it; the only help you received came from me and there is close to nothing you can use unless you enjoy trash talk and bashing.

And then I placed you on my ignore list and hear you are. If you are going to dish out crap learn to enjoy it when it comes back.

F. Guffey

 

[jfseaman]

I have reported @fguffey to the administrator for harassment.

Please don't feed the troll.

 

[jfseaman]

You also suggested we take it somewhere else and privately before the dysfunctional got involved I made an offer to help, I also said I had tools I am going to sell if you were interested, you choose to ignore my offer so I deleted the offer.

Think about it; the only help you received came from me and there is close to nothing you can use unless you enjoy trash talk and bashing.

And then I placed you on my ignore list and hear you are. If you are going to dish out crap learn to enjoy it when it comes back.

F. Guffey

So basically, you are starting a fight. I gave you no "crap" except to ask politely to stay off my threads.

You failed to do that.

I suggest you look up "internet troll". At the moment you are behaving like a classic troll. You want to provoke an argument based on fallacies. I won't argue about anything other than your lack of character. I don't know what you do for a living but I sure hope you don't work with anyone. That would be torture for those poor souls.

 

[ratbuster]

Clearly irrational....

 

[Lone Hunter]

I have reported @fguffey to the administrator for harassment.

Please don't feed the troll.

The IGNORE button works for him also... Works Well Too... There is a guy,can't remember which forum, his sig line expresses this guy on here. Something like
When your dead you don't know it, Everybody else does. Same with Stupid. I believe this to apply to a certain individual on here.

jfseaman, you said you use molly also. Do you feel it helps the cold weld as good or better than dry graphite. I dip my bullets in dry graphite and do not notice the stick or cold weld. Wondered if molly does the same. I had to order a special seater for my Bergers as a regular seater was putting a hard ring around the bullet. Looked kinda like a crimp. Not as noticeable with the VLD Seater but still there.