Where are the primers going? Seriously

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I applaud you for not asking this question in Reloading Components in stock Topic.

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[Don22u]

Go to Gunbrokers if you want to see fleecing on Primers
How these characters can get these supplies then purposefully screw the public is a huge problem. Candidly where is Gunbroker in establishing policies that limit this, aka so much % of msrp, or something

The ignorant or panic fear ones who pay those prices are to blame as well. That's what allows that screwed up market place to stay
Do you really want to pay almost 30 cents for a Primer, you know that 7 cent primer from 2 years ago

 

[DocCarbon]

Tell me how many people are in long Range F class as a whole? How many people are into benchrest shooting as a whole? Not that many. Do you know that there were 905 members in the IBS in 2021 not counting the other organizations. Even if there were 100K benchrest shooters out there which the numbers are nowhere close to that, that would be a drop in the bucket. Your case is nowhere near rested.

Well Jim ,Where are all the manufacturers components going then ?. Established reloaders aren't generally in the habit of purchasing additional presses ,especially if their unable to obtain consumable reloading components . Just saying it's increasing faster than even the manufacturers anticipated . I Myself know of Dozens of reloaders who Aren't organization affiliated ,yet reload as well as shoot .

 

[JimPag]

Well Jim ,Where are all the manufacturers components going then ?. Established reloaders aren't generally in the habit of purchasing additional presses ,especially if their unable to obtain consumable reloading components . Just saying it's increasing faster than even the manufacturers anticipated . I Myself know of Dozens of reloaders who Aren't organization affiliated ,yet reload as well as shoot .

There using them to make factory ammo. Where have u been in a cave? This topic has been hashed and rehashed a million times in the last year and a half.

 

[DocCarbon]

There using them to make factory ammo. Where have u been in a cave? This topic has been hashed and rehashed a million times in the last year and a half.

Jim : I think You and I are on different pages here ,I was speaking of Hard Non Consumable reloading components as in presses dies expanders and such . NOT primers on that particular subject .

What MANY of us fail to see or acknowledge is https://uspsa.org/
There's #7 different disciplines there alone ,factor in #3 gun cowboy shooting coupled with shotgun sports shooting .

As soon as ammunition prices jumped #3-6 fold the shortage is over .

 

[JimPag]

Jim : I think You and I are on different pages here ,I was speaking of Hard Non Consumable reloading components as in presses dies expanders and such . NOT primers on that particular subject .

What MANY of us fail to see or acknowledge is https://uspsa.org/
There's #7 different disciplines there alone ,factor in #3 gun cowboy shooting coupled with shotgun sports shooting .

As soon as ammunition prices jumped #3-6 fold the shortage is over .

Your right I was talking primers and you were talking presses and dies.

 

[RegionRat]

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/t...nents-in-stock-running-topic.4034059/page-172

Being able to buy primers these days is one thing. Being able to get 5000 case with free shipping is another.
Nothing worse than being limited to small amounts and having to spread the Haz Mat against a few and dealing with more frequent lot variations. The Target Sports deal amounts to about $0.12 per piece, but no extra for shipping. Good Luck.

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/cci...ry-primers-41-case-of-5000-cci1-p-112112.aspx

 

[Kracken McGraw]

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/t...nents-in-stock-running-topic.4034059/page-172

Being able to buy primers these days is one thing. Being able to get 5000 case with free shipping is another.
Nothing worse than being limited to small amounts and having to spread the Haz Mat against a few and dealing with more frequent lot variations. The Target Sports deal amounts to about $0.12 per piece, but no extra for shipping. Good Luck.

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/cci...ry-primers-41-case-of-5000-cci1-p-112112.aspx

Free ship and free hazmat? I didn’t check that far into it.

 

[RegionRat]

Free ship and free hazmat? I didn’t check that far into it.

Shipping yes, it says so right on the price bar, but HAZ is unavoidable.
Still beats paying additional shipping.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Shipping yes, it says so right on the prince bar, but HAZ is unavoidable.
Still beats paying additional shipping.

Yes, and spreading Hazmat over 5 bricks is a big savings.

 

[PopPop67]

Don't forget the Dept. of Homeland Security, with only 70K Officers/Agents, ordered 1.6 BILLION ROUNDS in 2015, procured over several years. Why? You tell me.

 

[MGYSGT]

It's the distributors jacking up the prices. Look at the shooters world powder. Tactical is still $29 and Precision is $48. They were both the same when they started life here in the U.S. The distributors heard the stories of same stuff as Varget and they gouged us.

 

[Laurie]

It's the distributors jacking up the prices. Look at the shooters world powder. Tactical is still $29 and Precision is $48. They were both the same when they started life here in the U.S. The distributors heard the stories of same stuff as Varget and they gouged us.

Well maybe SW is still selling older lots of 'Tactical' bought in at lower prices whilst 'Precision' has a faster turnover and has to be priced against rapidly rising and more recent factory gate prices. I don't know, but this speculation is no more nor less valid than immediately assuming it's a result of blatant profiteering.

What I do know is that 'Precision' is made in a factory in the Semtin Region of the Czech Republic right in the middle of central Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic

Take one look at the map in the Wiki page and you can't get much closer to the centre of the European landmass. I don't know how Explosia's powders get to the sea from there, whether by road, rail or river transport, but it's a long, long way to any major port.

Then .......... There's Europe and North America being separated by the Atlantic Ocean. It's 4,682 miles from Europe's main port Rotterdam to Mobile. (I don't know where SW's packing plant is, therefore which port it uses, but in any event, it's again a long, long way.) One reason so many shooting goods prices have gone through the roof is sea transport costs.

https://optimoroute.com/why-is-shipping-so-expensive/

Note the 547% increase in hiring and moving a 40ft box quoted, OK that's from China but I bet transatlantic price increases aren't that much smaller, if at all.

Then, the stuff still has to be trucked or rail-hauled from the port to wherever SW is located - and the US is as big as Europe, so that might be another thousand miles or so. Road and rail transport costs have risen astronomically too over the last year.

Then, there are European gas prices which have risen by three-figure percentage points since Russia invaded Ukraine in February and as the pressure on Putin is intensified and he retaliates by cutting gas supplies to the West are being forecast to possibly double again by the end of this year. Gas produces most electricity in Europe, so its price is soaring, but is also a major feedstock for powder manufacturing.

Upshot is that the factory gate price will be higher, probably a lot higher, for each new order, and the delivered price even more so with the transport costs crisis.

The US only has one factory supplying handloaders powders and it only makes ball types. Every kernel of extruded powder is imported, the shortest distance being from Quebec Province in Canada, the longest southern Australia. No wonder costs are rising, and rising a lot!

Primers are a different kettle of fish in the US as they're nearly all produced domestically, so it's more an issue of supply being insufficient for demand. I've little doubt that some people at every point in the factory to gunshop supply chain are seeing and seizing opportunities to load their margins. At the end of the day, the final customer - you and me - have to decide whether to pay those asking prices, or to wait 'until they drop to sensible levels'. The $64,000 questions are 1) will they drop to 'sensible levels'?, and 2) if so, how long is it going to take? My own view is that they will eventually drop, but the prices of even a couple of years ago are gone forever ...... and not by a small amount either.

 

[markm87]

I've seen the Bosian (or whatever) small rifle primers for $0.10 each delivered (5K sleeves). I just can't do it.

I'm still using the Wolf SRMs that were $14.99 per thousand from Wideners back in the day.

 

[Laurie]

I'm still using the Wolf SRMs that were $14.99 per thousand from Wideners back in the day.

Ha! I'm one up on you. I too am using Russian primers, but mine are branded PMC which predates the Wolf / Tula brands by some years.

 

[markm87]

Ha! I'm one up on you. I too am using Russian primers, but mine are branded PMC which predates the Wolf / Tula brands by some years.

Wonder if they're the same/similar formulation.

 

[Laurie]

Wonder if they're the same/similar formulation.

We got Russian primers (now branded 'Murom' after the town they're made in) for a few years after you lost them in the USA. (Gone now though, sadly, months before Russia invaded Ukraine.) Where the product is the same (eg Large Rifle is OEM code KVB-7 in both eras' lots), I can't see any noticeable difference between them. The Small Rifle primer (KVB-223) was updated some years ago and has a new colour (now brass instead of a dull copper colour); stronger cup; and is apparently a bit more aggressive to better ignite some ball powders.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Over here we can find most stuff except Bergers and some primers but being able to afford them is another matter these days, everything we need to shoot gets imported from around the world and the prices just go up month after month. I have enough components to keep me busy for a while but I believe when they run out ill be done with shooting as a sport.

 

[markm87]

The Small Rifle primer (KVB-223) was updated some years ago and has a new colour (now brass instead of a dull copper colour); stronger cup; and is apparently a bit more aggressive to better ignite some ball powders.

I have a partial box of the WOLF 223 primers that actually outshot (by a hair) the SRMs. I was wondering what the difference might be.

 

[Triple BB]

Primers basically went none existent after Obama took office. That was my wake call. I stocked up in the years following when they became available again. Now I get to watch the non-preppers grovel for components…. Lol!