When is a 6br not enough?

[mattri]

We all know that the 6br is a very accurate, very capable round that does very well to 300, even 600 yards, and that there are even those who shoot it well all the way out to 1k.

That being said, there are a number of "improved" versions, not to mention the slew of 6xcs, 6x47s, 6slrs, 6cms etc that offer a little more velocity to reach out to those farther ranges.

So at what point is the regular 6br the round to choose, and at what point is it not quite enough?

When do the bigger/heavier/faster rounds win out over the 6br? At what point does it bleed velocity so fast that it loses its edge?

Not trying to be vague- just something I've been thinking about.

 

[joejo]

i also would like to know this. i was wanting to build a 6br next but wasn't sure about the question at hand.

 

[Steve Blair]

The velocity loss rate is determined by the bullet B.C., not by the initial velocity. So long as the bullet maintains adequate velocity at the target distance, it should be fine. That said: If a 6BR and and a 6 SLR both shoot a 105 Hybrid at full working pressure, the 6 SLR will produce notably better ballistic results, both wind deflection and trajectory. If they are equally accurate, I would rather shoot the 6 SLR. [br]
I once shot my 6BR Viper SS in a 3X1000 match and shot a 198-9X in first relay. When the wind came up, it was a much different story. Kevin Beem won the 2010 AZ State Palma Championship with a 6BR over much more powerful rifles. Kevin lives in Raton, which may partly explain his success. [br]
My Viper has been first choice for F-Open Mid Range matches. When we shoot our next Mid Range 29 July, I'm going to shoot a 6mm Remington pushing 115 DTACs at ~3240. I predict that it will do well if the wind is up. So, the easy answer is that you can potentially win at any distance, including 1000, with a 6BR. There are other cartridges that produce better ballistics and almost equal accuracy. The 6BR is very easy to load and tune, the brass is a slam dunk and overall fun to shoot. Everyone should have at least one.

 

[MarkS]

mattri and Joejo

The only rounds that will run with the 6BR, are the 6BR IMP's. I did the 6XC to get more velocity. I did not get the speed I was looking for and the accuracy was not close. If you think you need more than a 6BR, do a Dasher or a BRX.

Mark Schronce

 

[lloydx2]

What are you shooting? F Class. Benchrest. Highpower. Or just want to go long and hit something? 1k bench is ruled by 6mm improved predominately the Dasher. But they shoot groups in under 50 seconds (10 shots). So getting a good condition is doable. F Class is different your waiting on a target puller and shooting 20 rounds. 10 minutes maybe. With really fast pit service. Highpower even longer. So point is your in the wind longer. If your going F Open @ 1k I think the weight limit is 22lbs so recoil is manageable. 7mm 180 hybrid @ 2800-3000 is the norm. Highpower match rifle utilizes a lighter rifle (self supported position) Recoil is a consideration. Fast moving 3200-3050 105-115 6mm bullet or 2950 140 6.5mm. But if you just want to have fun and go long, Forget about all the BS and shoot the BR.

 

[Hombre0321]

The 6MMBR is just a great cartridge, it will do sevreal jobs well, a few with excellent results, and sometimes, or somedays it needs to stay in the case.

The mid range shooters can shoot the 6MMBR almost all of the time and be in the game. Is it the absolute? No! But it is in the game and competitive.

In F-Class the variables can be great. The 1,000 yard matches can be a challange for "Any" cartridge. The 6MMBR hits the wall on those days when the wind is twitcy and hard to predict, and those days are the hardest for the 6BR. The wind at the longer distances is always a problem. Some cartridges handle those windy days better than others, the 6BR is challanged on those days to a great extint.

But if I had to pick only one cartridge and shoot only that one day in and day out in competition. It would be for me a choice between the 6.5X47L and the 6BR. Thankfully I don't have to make that choice and own both of those very fine cartridges, and I get to pick which I shoot on any given day.....

Roland

 

[mr45man]

When is a 6br not enough?
When your shooting 50 lbs steel rams at 500 M ,
Some times they go down and some times they don't
John H

 

[xswanted]

When is a 6br not enough?
When your shooting 50 lbs steel rams at 500 M ,
Some times they go down and some times they don't
John H

Haha!! Love that post. Silhouette is one thing I don't hear much of on this forum.....rams are big and tough at 500m!

 

[mattri]

Great replies, thanks to all who have posted.

Again, I'm not looking at a specific discipline and weighing the 6br against another round- just looking to get an overall picture of where the 6br starts to lose it's edge to bigger/faster cartridges.

One thing that has been mentioned is changing wind conditions.

Hombre0321 says that there are some rounds that handle the wind twitches better than the 6br. Which rounds? How much better?

It would seem that in a particularly tricky wind situation the bigger/faster rounds like the 7mms and the big 30s would be less affected by a slightly off call. In other words a slight switch or change would blow a 6mm 105grn bullet traveling at 2800 fps farther off course than a 7mm 168grn bullet going as fast or faster. Is this close to correct? If so how much of a difference is seen by going from a 6br to a dasher? From a 6br to a 284?

 

[Steve Blair]

Hombre0321 says that there are some rounds that handle the wind twitches better than the 6br. Which rounds? How much better?

It would seem that in a particularly tricky wind situation the bigger/faster rounds like the 7mms and the big 30s would be less affected by a slightly off call. In other words a slight switch or change would blow a 6mm 105grn bullet traveling at 2800 fps farther off course than a 7mm 168grn bullet going as fast or faster. Is this close to correct? If so how much of a difference is seen by going from a 6br to a dasher? From a 6br to a 284?

[br]
Any 6mm that drives the bullet faster than a 6BR will produce better ballistics. BTW, my 6BR is doing ~2920 from its present 30" barrel. Any 6.5mm cartridge from the 6.5X47L up will do noticeably better than the 6BR. There is no comparison between a big 7mm or .30 and a 6BR. All else equal, at 1000 yards with wind, the 6BR will compare poorly. [br]
As to how much; compare the ballistics at JBM and it will be obvious. [br]
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

 

[mattri]

Thanks for the reply. I've compared a number of rounds on various ballistic programs and the numbers don't always come out in the 6brs favor. Even the 243 beats it. Of course, then you get into issues of inherent accuracy, barrel life, etc. Not hoping to find a free lunch, just trying to see when those who shoot the 6br a lot leave it behind for something else.

 

[dragman]

The 6BR is a great round. if you needed one gun to go from 0-1000 it would be a very good choice at the further distances would it be the best (no) but it isn't bad either. shot one at a 1000 yard Silhouette shoot and it drops the Yotes @1000yards without a problem. It shines at the 1-300 but it is a good cartridge for a lot more.

 

[mattri]

Well said dragman. Most of our shooting is at 600 and beyond, I may end up with a 6brn just have to keep pouring over the data. I'm not willing to fireform and would prefer to stick with readily available, off the shelf components. Decisions decisions.

 

[eww1350]

600 yards and beyond...I would go with the 6.5x284, 6.5x47Lapua, or the 7mm Mag, or 7mm SUAM...all of these will do well in all conditions and better in windy conditions...the 7mms will have longer barrel life.
Frank Vance (Texan) has been winning a lot of 1000 yds trophies with his 7mm Magnum...nuthing exotic just plain 7mm Mag and Berger bullets...he shot a 5.56" (99-3x) 10 shot group in the hot Texas winds June 2nd...



Eddie in Texas

 

[cmillard]

outstanding accuracy, cheaper to load for than the other rounds listed, lower recoil than the other rounds listed, good barrel life, great loading components to choose from, easy to load for, the list can go on and on. by the way, i shoot a 6BR in F-Open and will more than likely stick with that round for some time to come

 

[MarkS]

mattri,

There is big difference between accuracy and wind drift and flatness of ballistic. For shooting like Fclass , a round with less wind drift is best, but more speed, and powder means less barrel life. Long range is not about speed, most round will shoot best 2800 f/s to 3000 f/s no matter what cal. I did the 6XC to gain speed for 600 yds Benchrest. All I could get was 3" group. I shot 3 IBS records with the 6BRX with a 0.749" light gun group. cmillard said it "outstanding accuracy" A few year ago I shot 6AI for long range varmint hunting, I now 6BR and 6BRX due to the accuracy. I just have to add a few more clicks. I have been there don't get caught up in speed go for the speed. Look at the 6BRX or 6Dasher. A friend of shot a PD at 1412 yds with a 6BRX last week. Accuracy is the key.

Mark Schronce

 

[6BRinNZ]

Mattri - IMO you can't usefully separate your question from the shooting discipline. Inside of the discipline there are other considerations some of which are ballistic related some aren't.

6mms seem to have an inherent accuracy and a 6BR is relatively versatile.

Typically the answer to your question is - when the wind is blowing.

 

[mattri]

Excellent reply!

When we were building motors there was a saying: "fast, cheap, reliable, pick two and you won't get the other".

I've been mulling over a 6br or "other" build for a while now. The barrel I'm shooting now probably won't last another season so I've been re-hashing all the old debates, the ballistics charts etc.

Thanks again to everyone who has posted, I appreciate the good input.

 

[Hammer47]

Almost never.

 

[mattri]

Lol, its the almost that gets you in the end, isn't it.