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When I see free hazmat on overpriced primers and powder

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Fell good Pricing.

COSTCO has a night shift they move stuff around. We spend more time looking , buy stuff we would not have.
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That's a load of crap. Reloading only accounts for about 15% of the components industries total sales. So if you believe losing that is going to effect them then I have some beautiful oceanfront property in Iowa that I'll sell you for some cheap money.
How many rounds per year do you think the average gun owner in the US shoots?
 
I am often shocked at the average Americans lack of the knowledge of history.

Of course prices are easily fixed. Supply chains are eliminated. It's been done throughout history a 1000 times. Over and over. Yet, it can't happen here.
The way I see it, literally, is most people don’t even remember to comb their hair in the morning let alone remember what has happened throughout history. Like the old saying goes those who don’t learn from past mistakes are doomed to repeat them.
 
That's a load of crap. Reloading only accounts for about 15% of the components industries total sales. So if you believe losing that is going to effect them then I have some beautiful oceanfront property in Iowa that I'll sell you for some cheap money.

Finally someone that can do some simple math.

You are correct sir.

It truly is bizarre and so many different ways that the people who actually talk about the industry on a whole are the ones that are the first to be shouted down. Like that simply can't be happening. This must be a demand problem. You can't have demand driving prices if the supply never shows up in the first place. If the companies are sending their supplies somewhere else so that only have a small percentage of what they used to make going to the public then yes that is going to drive up prices for the people who are willing to pay. But the problem is not that people are paying high prices it's that the supply has been diverted to someone else.
 
Average shooter's and average gun owners are two different things to me.
Recreational shooter is another, and competitor is another.
Two boxes probably.
So if you average 2000-3000 centerfire and about the same or possibly more in rimfire what type of shooter, gun owner are you?
 
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Just a thought, But judging by the amount of higher end cases (factory loaded) I've been picking up at the range this year. It looks like there is fewer handloaders shooting than there used to be. Nosler/Berger/ Sig/Lapua/Hornady. 223/5.56, 6.5 Creed (the top 2) and 308 and a few of the larger cartridges too. Is loading your own going the way of the wagon train ?
Reloaders pick up their brass.

New owners dont bother.
 
Reloaders pick up their brass.

New owners dont bother.
This is what I'm saying. Way too much brass left around. Nobodies picking it up (well except me I guess). This is CLEAN NEW brass almost always with the empty boxes just laying around.
 
Edit: $199.+ purchase required
Midway has free Hazmat right now. Can you imagine $359.99 for 8lbs. of Shooters World Precision.
WoW... just saying, I bought 24 lbs. back when it was $171.00 per 8lbs. I know time goes by quickly but it couldn't have been more than 2 years ago.
 
Maybe so but I’ll give you proof that the plan ahead approach will not always work. Sunday my wife baked a pie for her dad, we were taking it to his house and she asked me to stop at the store to buy a can of whipped cream for it. Grocery prices in these small towns are severely overpriced at this time just because they can. Anyway this small 6.5 ounce can was $5.99 and I walked out emptied handed and told the wife they were out of stock. I should have planned ahead.

Looks like to me that makes my point about planning ahead...... ;)
 
Edit: $199.+ purchase required
Midway has free Hazmat right now. Can you imagine $359.99 for 8lbs. of Shooters World Precision.
WoW... just saying, I bought 24 lbs. back when it was $171.00 per 8lbs. I know time goes by quickly but it couldn't have been more than 2 years ago.
My 8lb jug of RL26 still has the price tag on it $178. My RL23 was $156. The RL26 is 2.5 years old and the 23 is 3 years old. If and when you can find either one, they’re going for $350+. Now Alliant is saying there’s another 30% price increase coming. We’re going to be looking at prices literally tripling in 3 years… ridiculous

Forum Boss: As a related insight -- Last March, it was explained that the U.S. Dollar has lost 86% of its value in the last 50 years. See: https://finbold.com/real-value-of-one-u-s-dollar-decreases-by-86-in-the-last-50-years/

So you need $7 today to buy what $1.00 would buy in 1972.

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Maybe @Laurie would know?

I don't understand what @209jones is suggesting. It seems to be that nitrocellulose is manufactured in one big plant and supplied to powder manufacturers. It's not - they make their own as part of the process.

As I understand it. the US only has two powder manufacturing facilities these days. General Dynamics St. Marks (former Olin Corporation) and Radford VA (US govt owned but running it contracted out to the private sector on a least cost basis as per the neighbouring Lake City ammunition plant). Both plants use ball powder technology originally developed by the Olin Corporation. Because much of the process involves non-inflammable/explosive slurries, it is much safer inherently than making single-based extruded and even more so double-based / high-energy types that involve nitroglycerine. An American powder company executive told me around 20 years ago, that US EPS health & safety regs are so onerous that no manufacturer can afford to make extruded (stick/tubular) types in the USA - they're not banned, just too expensive to make in a way to meet EPS safety regs. Hence why both US plants use the other type. (Also, the US Army decided c. 1955 that 7.62 other than specialised grades such as match/sniper would be loaded with ball powders only, a policy that continues to the present day with 5.56.) AFAIK, Radford only supplies US government needs, ie Lake City mainly, in the smallarms propellants field. St. Marks sells a great deal to military ammo and factory sporting ammo suppliers, and its powders are seen in Winchester, Hodgdon, and some Accurate ball type products (or 'Spherical' as Hodgdon calls them for trademark reasons) in handloading canister grades.

Europe has a least five propellant plants that I know of, and there may be more. Eurenco has two - Sweden and Belgium one making stick types, the other ball - (and two more specialist explosives manufactures). Nitrochemie in Switzerland (half owned by the large Swiss/German RUAG group). Nammo Vihtavuori in Finland. Explosia a.s. in the Czech Republic. All are involved in the recreational shooting and handloading market to a greater or lesser extent. We see them in Alliant, Norma, Reload Swiss, Ramshot, Lovex/Shooters World, and Vihtavuori brands. There are also French Vectan brand powders, but I can't see who makes them.

General Dynamics has a second plant at Valleyfield, Quebec province in Canada (IMR and some Accurate brand powders). Thales / ADI has the former Australian government Mulwala plant in New South Wales, Australia (Hodgdon 'Extreme Extruded' grades and under its own ADI brand name in its 'local' Aussie/New Zealand markets).

Radford aside, all are privately owned and receive no governmental subsidies or payments to provide essential additional wartime capacity. Their outputs are therefore geared to normal levels of demand based on peacetime military use plus recreational shooting demand of which the USA provides by far the largest slice. Health & safety requirements and public / political opposition to dangerous products / potentially polluting activities create HUGE barriers to the normal capitalist society process of supply shortages being eventually met by increased supply from existing suppliers and/or new entrants. It is also a very expensive business to invest in. This is a very bad situation to be in should a major war start at short notice.
 
I'm sorry. The idea that "demand" sets prices in a monopoly based economy is simply incorrect.

Most of the items in our economy today are priced by cartels, not by supply and demand. There are groups of people throughout history that have created false shortages to maintain high prices. Diamonds for example. Oil for example. Food.

Recently a small group of companies priced lumber through the roof because THEY KNEW THEY COULD DO IT. There was a brief shortage They used the shortage. They simply raised the prices because they knew no one would stop it, and there is no plan to return lumber to the old prices. Ever. Because the companies learned that their product is a commodity that is needed no matter what it costs.
No one can make you buy discretionary goods.
 
From a Dealer on another site:

This morning Alliant powder announced a 30% increase effective immediately.

From what I've researched and heard through the loading industry...a gunpowder chemical plant in France had a fire last August, and have been running about half speed since.

https://apnews.com/article/health-explo ... 5f25b95234

That plant feeds a lot of countries their ingredients for powder etc., including the US.

There's a lot of of countries in Europe stocking up on ammo of various sizes etc.
I would pay the additional 30% if they would make RL 26 available
 
Two boxes probably.
How does that compare to the guys that shoot 5k to 10k rounds per year in the dog towns and gopher fields? Or the competitive shooters that rack up 4 or 5k per year? It would take a train load of 5 round per year guys to average the numbers to 2 boxes (40 rounds) per year. I know I don’t see anyone at the range that shoots that few rounds. I’ve shot approximately 1600 rounds in the last 6 weeks shooting live varmints. It would take 80 other shooters, shooting 5 rounds per year each, to offset what I have shot, to bring the average down to 40 rounds per year. And that’s assuming I don’t shoot another round for the remainder of the year.
 
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