When I see free hazmat on overpriced primers and powder

[Capt. Oblivious]

Id bet worldwide more people reload than in the USA by quite a big margin, I wonder where all those 10s of millions of people get most of their components from? We are in for a tough time, components are going to get harder to find and the once you find are going to be expensive. Over here that's been a fact for a while now, if you don't want to pay the price your going to stay home and someone else will be shooting in your place.

 

[Laurie]

Id bet worldwide more people reload than in the USA by quite a big margin,

I'd doubt that very much. One of the main UK importers of Sierra bullets told me years ago that the company had told him there are three gunshops in California alone that order more bullets than our whole country. As a result, our distributors rarely if ever got their full orders even in the 'good old days' before recent periods of endemic shortages. Edgar Brothers is not only the UK importer / distributor for Hodgdon and Alliant powders but all of Europe too. Until a few years back the company received a single shipping container annually, now risen somewhat but still tiny amounts by US standards

There are restrictions on handloading in some European countries. Outside of the UK and western Europe who else outside of the US is handloading? Nearly all of Asia has draconian gun ownership laws and simply possessing fired cases is a criminal offence in some. Central and eastern Europe has never figured much on this scene, until very recently. Judging by the warehouse loads of AKs and military ammo currently being handed over in a Serbian arms amnesty, who'd handload there? Eastern Europe is awash with 'borrowed' or bought on the black market former Soviet military weapons and vast stashes of ammo, not to mention illicit 8mm Mausers going back to WW1. Before Russia's invasion of their country, we saw a strong team of Ukrainian F/TR competitors annually at the European F-Class Championship meeting, all military special forces characters (Very camera-averse) and there is a strong central European sniper / PRS type competition scene, but all very military personnel orientated and apparently in privileged positions compared to the average shooter in their countries.

 

[Cecil S.]

Some killer prices till you get to the shipping or Haz Mat. Don't want to pay the shipping OR the Haz Mat fees? Think what a road trip will cost you.
So, the question is? How bad do you want it??

Or in my case needed it at the time. I would rather not be without when my stock is low. So I adjust and slowly build back up.

 

[daylate]

Funny 30% on their powder thats been unobtainable

From a Dealer on another site:

This morning Alliant powder announced a 30% increase effective immediately.

From what I've researched and heard through the loading industry...a gunpowder chemical plant in France had a fire last August, and have been running about half speed since.

https://apnews.com/article/health-explo ... 5f25b95234

That plant feeds a lot of countries their ingredients for powder etc., including the US.

There's a lot of of countries in Europe stocking up on ammo of various sizes etc.

 

[209jones]

I don't understand what @209jones is suggesting. It seems to be that nitrocellulose is manufactured in one big plant and supplied to powder manufacturers. It's not - they make their own as part of the process.

As I understand it. the US only has two powder manufacturing facilities these days. General Dynamics St. Marks (former Olin Corporation) and Radford VA (US govt owned but running it contracted out to the private sector on a least cost basis as per the neighbouring Lake City ammunition plant). Both plants use ball powder technology originally developed by the Olin Corporation. Because much of the process involves non-inflammable/explosive slurries, it is much safer inherently than making single-based extruded and even more so double-based / high-energy types that involve nitroglycerine. An American powder company executive told me around 20 years ago, that US EPS health & safety regs are so onerous that no manufacturer can afford to make extruded (stick/tubular) types in the USA - they're not banned, just too expensive to make in a way to meet EPS safety regs. Hence why both US plants use the other type. (Also, the US Army decided c. 1955 that 7.62 other than specialised grades such as match/sniper would be loaded with ball powders only, a policy that continues to the present day with 5.56.) AFAIK, Radford only supplies US government needs, ie Lake City mainly, in the smallarms propellants field. St. Marks sells a great deal to military ammo and factory sporting ammo suppliers, and its powders are seen in Winchester, Hodgdon, and some Accurate ball type products (or 'Spherical' as Hodgdon calls them for trademark reasons) in handloading canister grades.

Europe has a least five propellant plants that I know of, and there may be more. Eurenco has two - Sweden and Belgium one making stick types, the other ball - (and two more specialist explosives manufactures). Nitrochemie in Switzerland (half owned by the large Swiss/German RUAG group). Nammo Vihtavuori in Finland. Explosia a.s. in the Czech Republic. All are involved in the recreational shooting and handloading market to a greater or lesser extent. We see them in Alliant, Norma, Reload Swiss, Ramshot, Lovex/Shooters World, and Vihtavuori brands. There are also French Vectan brand powders, but I can't see who makes them.

General Dynamics has a second plant at Valleyfield, Quebec province in Canada (IMR and some Accurate brand powders). Thales / ADI has the former Australian government Mulwala plant in New South Wales, Australia (Hodgdon 'Extreme Extruded' grades and under its own ADI brand name in its 'local' Aussie/New Zealand markets).

Radford aside, all are privately owned and receive no governmental subsidies or payments to provide essential additional wartime capacity. Their outputs are therefore geared to normal levels of demand based on peacetime military use plus recreational shooting demand of which the USA provides by far the largest slice. Health & safety requirements and public / political opposition to dangerous products / potentially polluting activities create HUGE barriers to the normal capitalist society process of supply shortages being eventually met by increased supply from existing suppliers and/or new entrants. It is also a very expensive business to invest in. This is a very bad situation to be in should a major war start at short notice.

Vectan is Dynamit Nobel, or whatever a newest name for them may be these days, as I understand it. Wish I could find the congressional report, all I can remember about it, I'd know the plant name if I saw it, it had to do with closing bases and ammo plants, but, it is a US Gov't document. Things may well have changed since then in that supply chain, think they are using some different products these days as well, at least in artillery rounds, but at that time, they were worried about capacity if they needed it in a hurry.

 

[shortgrass]

This press release indicates Radford is/has expanded

https://www.baesystems.com/en-us/feature/radford-moves-to-commissioning-phase-of-a-new-nitrocellulose-facility

And last summer they received a $1.2bn contract to make nitrocellulose and propellants.

My guess is the epa put their thinking caps on after Russia invaded Ukraine.

The EPA has 'thinking cap'?! You're delusional! There's very little 'thinking' goes on there or in any other 3 letter gov agency.

 

[dgeesaman]

The EPA has 'thinking cap'?! You're delusional! There's very little 'thinking' goes on there or in any other 3 letter gov agency.

The EPA and defense strategy are both managed by the administration. I meant that the epa can be given specific mandates from the administration if it affects national defense. So it would be the administration making the decision.

 

[urbanrifleman]

It's ok. We will just get our ammo and reloading components from China.

We sent them everything else.

 

[joshb]

It's ok. We will just get our ammo and reloading components from China.

We sent them everything else.

Well…….they have been in the gunpowder business longer than anybody.
I can see it now: “ Hey Ching….Before you invade Taiwan, can I order some powder?”

 

[J.d. Popkes]

The EPA has 'thinking cap'?! You're delusional! There's very little 'thinking' goes on there or in any other 3 letter gov agency.

Respectfully, you’re delusional, if you think that there’s no thinking involved. People keep saying “so and so president is dumb”, and “he has no idea what he’s doing”, and that is the delusional thinking that’s the problem. THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Just because it’s not what we think is the right decision does not mean that they are stupid. I think it’s important to remember they have a different goal. These 3 letter agencies and the administration. Lots of thinking going on.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Well…….they have been in the gunpowder business longer than anybody.
I can see it now: “ Hey Ching….Before you invade Taiwan, can I order some powder?”

I'm actually quite surprised that people haven't started lobbying their Congress people to get us to be able to import reloading supplies from China. Because you know the price is here are too high so we need to have them compete with us. This certainly was the idea behind opening our country to a communist slave dictatorship economy so we could "compete" against them.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Kick China's ass to the curb!