What's your favorite target crown on your ppc or Br and why?

[clowdis]

What I do like about the 11 degree target crown on a polished s.s. barrel. When you fire it you will get that flower/petal type look on the face from the carbon fouling. You can use that as a indicator on how the gases are releasing from the muzzle. If you see a real abnormal look to the carbon... could be a good indicator to check your crown for any damage.

I think that this is the main reason I use an 11* crown on barrels. I don't need a magnifier to tell if the crown is screwed up.

 

[NC/Br Shooter]

Iv read every single response. Leaned several things on this topic. Had no idea

 

[FrankG]

I was asked to post some pic's. This is that Win Pre64 barrel as I got the rifle but this is typical of what we see on damaged crowns.

Look at the edges....and this is pretty much what we see from dragging the rod over the edge, dragging a brush back across the muzzle etc...just gets all rough and rolled over looking. Sometimes you can see it with the naked eye or with a jewelers eye loupe it's that bad. Sometimes it's so slight you can only see it with a bore scope but it still causes accuracy problems.

I've also seen crowns that either the unknown or a poor gunsmith have done to the point it looks like it was done with a hacksaw. Yes that bad!

Later, Frank

 

[NC/Br Shooter]

I was asked to post some pic's. This is that Win Pre64 barrel as I got the rifle but this is typical of what we see on damaged crowns.

Look at the edges....and this is pretty much what we see from dragging the rod over the edge, dragging a brush back across the muzzle etc...just gets all rough and rolled over looking. Sometimes you can see it with the naked eye or with a jewelers eye loupe it's that bad. Sometimes it's so slight you can only see it with a bore scope but it still causes accuracy problems.

I've also seen crowns that either the unknown or a poor gunsmith have done to the point it looks like it was done with a hacksaw. Yes that bad!

Later, Frank

So your saying with a cleaning brush, going from the load end pushing all the way through to the breech and out the end then pulling it back through and out what ever way causes that?

 

[FrankG]

So your saying with a cleaning brush, going from the load end pushing all the way through to the breech and out the end then pulling it back through and out what ever way causes that?

It’s not just the brush by itself…. It can be the joint of the brush at the rod is one issue, the abrupt folding of the bristles is another… combined with carbon fouling laying in the bristles of the brush… the hard carbon will scratch/damage the bore that’s why I do recommend you rinse clean your brushes regularly if you use a brush.

Also DON’T use stainless steel brushes…. they will screw up your barrels.

Never reverse a brush in the bore of the barrel as well.

Use a good quality one piece cleaning rod and a rod/bore guide as well.

 

[NC/Br Shooter]

I may invest in a bore guide. I broke my cleaning the other day trying to eject a stuck case. Finally got it out after I took barrel off.

I get what you're saying though about the brushes, it makes sense

 

[Trevor60]

Does anyone have a pic or link to the tool that can create the 60 degree chamfer .
cheers
Trevor

 

[Dimner]

I must be missing something with the cleaning techniques you all use. If I'm never supposed to let the brush come out of the barrel and I'm never supposed to reverse or short stroke in the barrel, how does one get a barrel clean?

Do you let the brush go fully out, halfway out, or never out of the muzzle? If the last method, how do you ever get a the rifling at the muzzle clean of carbon?

For what it's worth, I do use an action and chamber specific bore guide and a properly sized coated rod. I also never try and jam a too tight patch or a brush through my barrel that causes my cleaning rod to flex.

I just never understood how you all get the last 1 inch of the muzzle clean without something coming out on that end.

 

[Ccrider]

I must be missing something with the cleaning techniques you all use. If I'm never supposed to let the brush come out of the barrel and I'm never supposed to reverse or short stroke in the barrel, how does one get a barrel clean?

Do you let the brush go fully out, halfway out, or never out of the muzzle? If the last method, how do you ever get a the rifling at the muzzle clean of carbon?

For what it's worth, I do use an action and chamber specific bore guide and a properly sized coated rod. I also never try and jam a too tight patch or a brush through my barrel that causes my cleaning rod to flex.

I just never understood how you all get the last 1 inch of the muzzle clean without something coming out on that end.

Never reverse a brush in the bore. In the bore is the important part . Push the brush all the way through barely clearing the muzzle. Then, and this depends on how anal you are, ease the brush back into the muzzle and then pull it back through the breach.

Here are pictures of damage to one of my crowns. I can’t say how it happened, but it definitely hurt accuracy. The line around the top looks so straight all the way around until I think it was done during machining.

 

[AICS308]

I was taught to never pull a brush or patch back through the muzzle end. It is a PIA but I take the brush or patch off the rod and gently pull it back out, screw brush or patch back on and repeat. This makes cleaning a real chore.

I would appreciate any suggestions on a better way to do this.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I go to a lot of Matches, and see shooters doing a lot of cleaning, usually between relays. That’s a lot of pull backs over a Two Gun Event.

In going on 30 years, i can’t say I have ever noticed shooters take the brush off of a rod before they pull it back through the bore. In fact, the vast majority pull it back and forth multitudes of times.

That being said, the photos that Frank has posted are enlightening. It might induce me to remove my barrels and freshen the crown even more often than I do now.

For me, considering the amount of time I spend at my Gun Club, removing the barrel and freshening up the crown is now more practical than ever.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I may invest in a bore guide. I broke my cleaning the other day trying to eject a stuck case. Finally got it out after I took barrel off.

I get what you're saying though about the brushes, it makes sense

I went back to patches and abrasive.

 

[JPB3]

In a bunch of years at short range BR I never ran into any of the top shooters that used anything but a 90' crown.. Other disciplines probably use different methods..

One thing of note, as long as it's done correctly it doesn't make any difference, imo.

Pat B.

 

[Dimner]

Where I ended up.... after reading all the different techniques of bronze brushing advice that is given as the only way to avoid damage.

I just turned to the iosso blue stiff synthetic brush. I have no problem short stroking/altering direction while in the bore. At the muzzle, I mostly try not to let the brush all the way out of the muzzle. This allows me to get most of the carbon out with keeping up on cleaning. At least, it gets me to where I am comfortable with how clean the bore is. And maintains the 1/2 moa accuracy that I want. Mine are sporting rifles after all. If I get too much carbon for my liking (using a borescope to inspect) I will JB/Iosso paste on a patch. But if it comes to that, it just means I was lazy at keeping it clean.

When I build my first dedicated bench rifle, who knows, I'll probably do something different. But not until the bore cleaning method impacts my target results. I have so much more to work on improving until that happens.

To answer the original question. On my sporting rifles, I asked for a 'hunting crown' from douglas barrels. Figured they would know what the best is for that application. What I received was this:



Doesn't look perfect, but it gets me to 1/2 moa and that's all that matters.

 

[rogina]

I think that this is the main reason I use an 11* crown on barrels. I don't need a magnifier to tell if the crown is screwed up.

I don't like the 90 degree, recessed crown because the carbon collects on it.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Where I ended up.... after reading all the different techniques of bronze brushing advice that is given as the only way to avoid damage.

I just turned to the iosso blue stiff synthetic brush. I have no problem short stroking/altering direction while in the bore. At the muzzle, I mostly try not to let the brush all the way out of the muzzle. This allows me to get most of the carbon out with keeping up on cleaning. At least, it gets me to where I am comfortable with how clean the bore is. And maintains the 1/2 moa accuracy that I want. Mine are sporting rifles after all. If I get too much carbon for my liking (using a borescope to inspect) I will JB/Iosso paste on a patch. But if it comes to that, it just means I was lazy at keeping it clean.

When I build my first dedicated bench rifle, who knows, I'll probably do something different. But not until the bore cleaning method impacts my target results. I have so much more to work on improving until that happens.

To answer the original question. On my sporting rifles, I asked for a 'hunting crown' from douglas barrels. Figured they would know what the best is for that application. What I received was this:

View attachment 1500474

Doesn't look perfect, but it gets me to 1/2 moa and that's all that matters.

In the eyes of the bullet, that is a flat 90 degree crown. In function, it is also radiused on the end of the muzzle for asthetic purposes and some protection.

 

[FrankG]

I go to a lot of Matches, and see shooters doing a lot of cleaning, usually between relays. That’s a lot of pull backs over a Two Gun Event.

In going on 30 years, i can’t say I have ever noticed shooters take the brush off of a rod before they pull it back through the bore. In fact, the vast majority pull it back and forth multitudes of times.

That being said, the photos that Frank has posted are enlightening. It might induce me to remove my barrels and freshen the crown even more often than I do now.

For me, considering the amount of time I spend at my Gun Club, removing the barrel and freshening up the crown is now more practical than ever.

If and I say IF I use a brush I only push it breech to muzzle and all the way out. I will remove the brush and then gently guide the rod back thru.

Rarely do I use a brush. When I feel the need I will but rarely.

I do use JB bore compound or 40x cleaner on a regular basis to keep carbon fouling in check.

 

[AlNyhus]

I may invest in a bore guide. I broke my cleaning the other day trying to eject a stuck case Finally got it out after I took barrel off.

Not using a bore guide is a helluva way to treat a barrel.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Here ya go....from left to right in the picture..... flat style crown (that's an original Winchester 52D that needed to be recrowned), a deep stepped recess crown (I call this the Marine Corp style), an 11 degree target in the middle, a regular stepped recess and on the far right a sporter radius crown. If you look close, they all have the chamfer at the bore edge.

Again, performance wise... you won't see a difference.

Later, Frank

from Left to Right #4 is my go to.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I really doubt bronze can hurt stainless.

If the body of the brush is bronze, or the jag is bronze or stainless you would have to prove to me you can take a divot of stainless with bronze.