DShortt
Gold $$ Contributor
An interesting question. Perhaps it is relevant to look at the biggest winning groups from the season and work back?
What’s a good f-class group at 300m?
- Thread starter marchx
- Start date
In my part of the world, our X ring on F-Class target are 39mm (1,54 inches).
To shoot all 10 shots in the X during a match, the rifle needs to group 0,35 inches at 100 meters (109 yards) consistently... at minimum.
Our matches are 30 shots total (3 series of 10 shots) and the FTR top shooters here are gettting around 300-25X per match.
Aside que pure precision of the gun/ammo system, the main point is read the wind well to put all shots accurately at the X ring.
Shooting F-Class at this short distance put too much weight on the precision of the equipment.
To shoot all 10 shots in the X during a match, the rifle needs to group 0,35 inches at 100 meters (109 yards) consistently... at minimum.
Our matches are 30 shots total (3 series of 10 shots) and the FTR top shooters here are gettting around 300-25X per match.
Aside que pure precision of the gun/ammo system, the main point is read the wind well to put all shots accurately at the X ring.
Shooting F-Class at this short distance put too much weight on the precision of the equipment.
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
One thing that the TackDriver brings out is a huge dose of reality.
I would suspect that there are quite a few shooters who have thousands of dollars invested in the best of everything would tell you that “my rifle shoots 1/4 inch groups all day long”, only sit there staring through their scope wondering why those bullets are 1 3/4 inches apart.
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Another thing is, you have to be absolutely merciless when evaluating yourself and your rifle. You cannot give the rifle the benefit of a doubt. I shot a sub-1/2 inch group in practice and was pretty confident. That was the last time I saw that kind of performance and am still at a loss to explain why (I wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, with visions of errant shots still there). Is it me? Am I really that much worse than I was when I was younger? These are questions which have to be answered before next year! I think, the truth is, I gave the rifle the benefit of the doubt, because I wanted to shoot it. I saw the good groups and made excuses for the errant shots.
A friend of mine, fifty years ago, told me, "If you load a decent bullet over a proven load of powder, it should shoot reasonably well. If not there is something wrong with the effing rifle. If it shoots reasonably well, then you can start sweating the small stuff. If not, figure out what's wrong first." WH
What about 15 shot 300m groups ?
F Class or Benchrest, if I wanted to shrink groups ( which I always do ) I would revisit every aspect of my tuning process, with no assumptions as with your primers .
Example; Who says Br-4 are the best or don’t require sorting ?
Follow up question; What bullets are you shooting ?
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wkdickinson
Gold $$ Contributor
All "X's" seem like a great measurement to me.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
So, on an F class target the x ring is 1/2 MOA, yes?
If so the group at 300 yards would have to be 1/2 + 1 caliber/3 MOA.
For 6 mm stuff, that would be 1/2 MOA + .243/3 MOA => .508 MOA.
wkdickinson
Gold $$ Contributor
1.42"/(3*1.047")=.452 moa + 1 bullet caliber
Well here is my 2 cents worth. When I was in both Houston and Arizona, I did all load development at 300 yards. I would test my loads out at 600 yards primarily at the Golden Triangle Club in Beaumont, Texas. Why? "Generally", Beaumont had very mild winds and if there was going to be a problem with your load it would show up at 600 yards in very mild conditions. That way there was no "Well it was the conditions to blame". But I found that if I got "generally" three quarters of an inch to one and one eighth inches, I was good to go. That does NOT MEAN that EVERY 5 shot group landed there. Some, every once in awhile, would go to even one and three eighths of and inch. The same load, from time to time, would go into a half inch. If I stayed inside those parameters, not only would I be competitive, I could win. T-Rust me, at 300 and 600 yards, I won a fair amount of matches. At one 600 yard match, I shot a 200-17X.. So what! Well those 17Xs were so tight in the X ring, that none of the "pasties" even touched the X ring itself. I am of the opinion that a REALLY good load will shoot three quarters to one and one eighth "generally". I have had some amazingly accurate rifles. However, even getting CONSISTENT 1 inch or less at 300 has eluded me for my entire life. Like I said, that is MY 2 cents worth..
Caliber choice can make a huge difference at 300 yards. My dasher and BR will shoot inside of my 308 with certainty, again bullet choice can play a significant factor as well.
I did sort BR4, but after sorting them I concluded that they are pretty even.
I am shooting Barts Infinity 105gr.
foxguy: “What Calibers are most of the top shooters shooting?”
Thanks
BR4’s + 105’s = 6mm/.243…
My go to for 300-600 is a 6BR, past that, a 7mm/.280AI, soon to be a 7PRCW
No claim to be a “Top Shooter” but I do okay…
At 300 you need to clean the target with a high x count at my range i cleaned it with 40 x and got beat by 50x.
On a podcast "Believe the Target" with Erik Cortina and Jim Murphy they both agreed that in order to be competitive in F-class the rifle needs to be capable of 10 shot .250 groups at 100 yds. Jim did say that he would go to a club match @ .375 group for 10 shots.
I have a difficult time determining EXACTLY what is actually going on "consistently" when I shoot at 100 yards. Now that I am in Tennessee, at Oak Ridge Sportsman Assn., I shoot at 200 yards. If I can stay 1/2" or under pretty consistently, I am good to go! However, even though they shoot well at 200, I have to test at a match, be it 600 or 1000. In my opinion, that puts me at a disadvantage. But it is what it is. The vast majority of the time, the groups hold together "out yonder". I have had a "less than stellar surprise" AND I have had a couple of nice surprises! Generally though, the groups at 200 yards are a really good indicator of what will happen during a match. Having said that, between my age and the fact I don't shoot much more than once per month, my shooting abilities are now more of a challenge than my loads I settle on!
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