Whats .001 of seating depth worth?

[Ledd Slinger]

We see the same thing with powder charges. You have your node and when you are slightly outside that window, holes in target can drastically change. So we want to load everything as perfectly as possible but still always shoot for the middle of a node to ease the pain on the days when we screw up.

If you are always seeing significant changes on your target with EVERY single .001” change in seating depth then you aren’t in tune with a node yet. Probably need to go back and tweak the powder charge or change powders

 

[Northridge]

I think the thread title is a little misleading.
I don’t see Toms target as showing what every .001” seating depth change can make in a target, but rather what happens when you go .001” outside the seating node window.

We run in the middle of a node because people and measuring instruments aren’t always perfect. But if you mess up seating to the middle of a node then the consequences aren’t as severe.
We see the same thing with powder charges. You have your node and when you are slightly outside that window, holes in target can drastically change. So we want to load everything as perfectly as possible but still always shoot for the middle of a node to ease the pain on the days when we screw up.

If you are always seeing significant changes on your target with EVERY single .001” change in seating depth then you aren’t in tune with a node yet. Probably need to go back and tweak the powder charge or change powders

I would agree partially Ledd slinger, Tom’s seating sharing with a full .001 next to it is always helpful but at 1000 yards as often as the seating has a adjacent seating holding just as often you won’t so shooting a “solid” is even more important in regard to tools and seating indifference in ammo..

Shawn Williams

 

[Ledd Slinger]

The one die I have that produces the best consistency in seating depth and bullet runout has a stem that I drilled and bedded to the specific bullet I am using in that cartridge. Much more contact surface area on the ogive than any stem you will find out of the box. Also happens to be one of the most accurate rifles I have ever owned. I have actually had the die show me bullets with inconsistent ogive shapes that I could not see in other measurements of sorting. Shows up as a different seating depth. Can re-seat the same bad bullet all day and it will still show a bad measurement every time, then seat a different good bullet and the round is right back on track with the rest. Thinking about doing it with all my dies once a rifle is settled on a bullet.

21st Century offers a seating die with stems custom built for specific bullets and Bullet Central might as well but I have no experience with those dies

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Thanks Alex. I have a comparator that works ok. My press is a Bonanza coaxel press with Harrell's die. Seating with either Redding micrometer seater die or Wilson hand die. I tested loads at 300 yds. Three rounds each in 6 br 29,29.1,29.2,29.3 gr Varget 107 Sierra seated .010 short of touching. Group for 12 rounds was 1.195" verticle, 1.525 horizontal. We shoot 600 yard br, using 300 yard rapid fire target, 31/4" X ring 71/4" 10 ring. Shot 100 with 9X last shoot. Just trying to do better. Thanks Tom.

I have a coax press and used a Harrell's die too. But my Hood press gave much better bump numbers. The Bullet Central dies are not cheap but they are very nice and I think are superior in this regard. That coax is handy and does alot of things well though.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

We see the same thing with powder charges. You have your node and when you are slightly outside that window, holes in target can drastically change. So we want to load everything as perfectly as possible but still always shoot for the middle of a node to ease the pain on the days when we screw up.

If you are always seeing significant changes on your target with EVERY single .001” change in seating depth then you aren’t in tune with a node yet. Probably need to go back and tweak the powder charge or change powders

My point was just to open some eyes that .001 can make a difference in group size. Thats all.
Now the center of the "node" would be 7. But if your much over + or - .001 on a loaded round your gonna be asking for a spitter.

 

[INTJ]

My point was just to open some eyes that .001 can make a difference in group size. Thats all.
Now the center of the "node" would be 7. But if your much over + or - .001 on a loaded round your gonna be asking for a spitter.

Didn't Glenn's record setting HG last year have a seating tune window of zero?

 

[Toms]

I have a coax press and used a Harrell's die too. But my Hood press gave much better bump numbers. The Bullet Central dies are not cheap but they are very nice and I think are superior in this regard. That coax is handy and does alot of things well though.

Thanks Alex. I would love to come up and shoot with the guys at Deep Creek range. It's a 9 hour trip so haven't made it. Would think I could really learn things. I have been reloading for 58 years. Have shot compatition for 50 years but I'm always trying to improve. I checked my sized brass. It is + or- .001. I anneal brass every time. I need to measure and sort things better I think. I have a friend that his doughtier and son in law live in Dillon. He visits them often. I told him to look you up. Said he came by the address on web and saw no shop so he didn't stop. Do you have time for visitors? I'm sure appreciative of all your knowledge you so freely share. Thank you and others for sharing. Tom

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Didn't Glenn's record setting HG last year have a seating tune window of zero?

No he ran the deep jam, which is actually wider than normal. If the barrel likes it.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Thanks Alex. I would love to come up and shoot with the guys at Deep Creek range. It's a 9 hour trip so haven't made it. Would think I could really learn things. I have been reloading for 58 years. Have shot compatition for 50 years but I'm always trying to improve. I checked my sized brass. It is + or- .001. I anneal brass every time. I need to measure and sort things better I think. I have a friend that his doughtier and son in law live in Dillon. He visits them often. I told him to look you up. Said he came by the address on web and saw no shop so he didn't stop. Do you have time for visitors? I'm sure appreciative of all your knowledge you so freely share. Thank you and others for sharing. Tom

The shop is not at my house. Im the only one at the shop so everything stops if Im not working. Need to keep up with the work load. I will be at Deep Creek in August for the championship shoot. Thats the last one of the year and I will have plenty of time to visit. If you plan to come and shoot Id book a hotel room now.

 

[foxguy]

Take a case as fired, lube with my finger, size, wipe off lube, seat primer, brush inside of neck, dump powder, seat bullet. I dont clean anything or anneal. Obviously you trim and chamfer when needed. I would suspect most guys have a far more complicated process, and I used to as well.

Hi Alex,

Target Shooting, not Annealing.

Just curious with this procedure approximately how many times are you reloading your brass cases and how do you make the determination it's time for new cases?

 

[INTJ]

No he ran the deep jam, which is actually wider than normal. If the barrel likes it.

Yes a deep jam, but didn't he have to keep it at exactly that jam amount with no variation?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

@GlennK

 

[GlennK]

@GlennK

It had about 5 to 6 thou window for seating. I have the target at home. It shot 5 four shot groups in the 2s at a grand with various seating depths.

 

[JFrank]

My point was just to open some eyes that .001 can make a difference in group size. Thats all.
Now the center of the "node" would be 7. But if your much over + or - .001 on a loaded round your gonna be asking for a spitter.

Alex,
I’ve seen more than my share of spitter’s and split groups so when I read these threads it does open my eyes adding a great deal of clarity and provides a direction for guys like me.

I thank you, Shawn and all the fellas that have been so helpful.

Jim

 

[Ccrider]

No he ran the deep jam, which is actually wider than normal. If the barrel likes it.

What are you referring to when you say “deep jam.”

 

[Alex Wheeler]

18-24 in

 

[DocDoc]

Doesn't there have to be a lot of neck tension to prevent soft seating that far in?

 

[GlennK]

Here is the target that told me it was going to work...cant shoot smaller then your vertical.

 

[Toms]

The shop is not at my house. Im the only one at the shop so everything stops if Im not working. Need to keep up with the work load. I will be at Deep Creek in August for the championship shoot. Thats the last one of the year and I will have plenty of time to visit. If you plan to come and shoot Id book a hotel room now.

Thanks Alex. If I come I'll bring my camper. I think there is camping at the range isn't there?

 

[Jay Harrison]

Great thread. Overwhelming amount of information. I'm brand new to benchrest. @Alex Wheeler just finished my 6BRA and its off getting the stock fitted. Very excited to get started. Think I have everything except bullets at this point but they are on order.

@Alex Wheeler, this is Jay Harrison