What Next for Remington & Rem 700?

[INTJ]

A Panda (updated version of sleeved 700) weighs 30.5 oz. A M70 weighs 42 oz. In a 10.5 pound rifle those extra 11.5 oz are better off in the barrel (or maybe the barrel and scope together).

Even a BAT DS weighs less than 2 pounds.

A Panda is not just an updated version of a sleeved 700 any more than it is an update of a Mauser.

From what I remember, a Remington short action by itself was over 30 oz, and you needed to add the sleeve on top of that.

Also, I am not advocating using M-70s for BR. I am saying they are superior as a reliable hunting action and still worth building a custom rifle on. As opposed to a 700 which is significantly bettered by custom actions at a competitive price point.

A Mausenfield is significantly more expensive than buying a new M-70 as a donor, and I don't think a Defiance CRF is the claw type but that jicky "controlled push feed" style that is really no advantage over a push feed.

So the CRF M-70 and commercial Mausers will likely maintain there positions as viable custom hunting rifle actions at their price point. That really isn't the case with Remington anymore. The Remington 700s day in the sun has been over for a while....

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Thats true. Never see any of those far superior designs on the line. They are a nightmare to make right. Ask a gunsmith to build you a BR rifle on a crf model 70 or a ruger or howa and youll get hung up on

CRF makes no sense for BR shooting and that wasn’t even a single thought in the mind of any of the manufacturers designing or producing them. As a hunting rifle in a repeater it is a more reliable design. Arguably the 700 can be just as reliable or even better if an aftermarket Center feed magazine is installed. But again, that’s not the original factory design, that’s a modified part.

If Howa had better trigger options they would most likely beat out any factory 700 in BR competition shooting. The Howa incorporates many attributes of the 700 design on the top end of the action while having a much sturdier foundation on the base.

Like the Howa, many top competitive custom actions are flat bottom or at least have some sort of flat surface on the underbelly to resist torque. BAT knows the importance of that feature and you will find it designed to some degree in most of their competition actions. Kelby also knows the benefits of a flat bottom and incorporates it in their BR actions.

So if the overall 700 design is so great, why does every custom builder modify it so greatly from the original factory design? About the only thing custom action builders keep the same is the trigger design because that’s what everyone builds good triggers for and so it must be used. Everything else has been modified or completely changed from the inside out.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Howa will never catch on as long as they have metric threads and that trigger like you said. Even tikka was smart enough to use imperial threads

 

[Dusty Stevens]

CRF makes no sense for BR shooting and that wasn’t even a single thought in the mind of any of the manufacturers designing or producing them. As a hunting rifle in a repeater it is a more reliable design. Arguably the 700 can be just as reliable or even better if an aftermarket Center feed magazine is installed. But again, that’s not the original factory design, that’s a modified part.

If Howa had better trigger options they would most likely beat out any factory 700 in BR competition shooting. The Howa incorporates many attributes of the 700 design on the top end of the action while having a much sturdier foundation on the base.

Like the Howa, many top competitive custom actions are flat bottom or at least have some sort of flat surface on the underbelly to resist torque. BAT knows the importance of that feature and you will find it designed to some degree in most of their competition actions. Kelby also knows the benefits of a flat bottom and incorporates it in their BR actions.

So if the overall 700 design is so great, why does every custom builder modify it so greatly from the original factory design? About the only thing custom action builders keep the same is the trigger design because that’s what everyone builds good triggers for and so it must be used. Everything else has been modified or completely changed from the inside out.

Defiance made at least one cone bolt win 70 crf clone. And it sucked putting a barrel on

 

[john 800]

moving right along speaking of Remington s future. What does this mean for people who have purchased Remington firearms in the last few years that carried the lifetime warranty? Will the new owners honor it?
Will they keep the versamax and v3?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Howa will never catch on as long as they have metric threads and that trigger like you said. Even tikka was smart enough to use imperial threads

Yeah they’ve definitely got a couple things holding them back a little bit here in the states. The trigger being the biggest issue. Better stock selection would be nice too. Their factory triggers are actually really nice for recreational use. With an aftermarket spring kit and simple adjustment they can have a nice light pull of around 1lb. or slightly less. But just like any other factory trigger, they can never be made to compete with a Jewell or BnA.

I don’t see the metric threads as a setback that much. My gunsmith never batted an eye or charged me any extra money for the couple of Howa actions I bought to have him rebarrel.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

moving right along speaking of Remington s future. What does this mean for people who have purchased Remington firearms in the last few years that carried the lifetime warranty? Will the new owners honor it?
Will they keep the versamax and v3?

Will they bring back the 105cti?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Defiance made at least one cone bolt win 70 crf clone. And it sucked putting a barrel on

Cone bolt with CRF face/claw? How does that work? It does sound like a pain to deal with.

Normally cone bolts are never recommended for repeaters. But I guess with CRF cutout on the bottom of the face it could work

 

[john 800]

Will they bring back the 105cti?

We will just have to wait and see i guess.
I had to google the 105cti to see what it was. Must have been around the same time as the 887 nitro mag or so

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Cone bolt with CRF face/claw? How does that work? It does sound like a pain to deal with.

Normally cone bolts are never recommended for repeaters. But I guess with CRF cutout on the bottom of the face it could work

Heres one version. Probably the current one

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Cone bolt with CRF face/claw? How does that work? It does sound like a pain to deal with.

Normally cone bolts are never recommended for repeaters. But I guess with CRF cutout on the bottom of the face it could work

Here it is. You gotta do that stupid cutout on the barrel like a crf mod70 along with a cone

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

The Remington 700s day in the sun has been over for a while....

The sun is still shining on M24s and M40s in Afghanistan.





Just like it did 50+ years ago ...

 

[INTJ]

The sun is still shining on M24s and M40s in Afghanistan.

View attachment 1236002

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Yeah but they use different stuff for long range.

DoD just bought this formidable new sniper rifle in .300 PRC

The MRAD rifle is chambered in .300 PRC, a different caliber than what is being asked for in the Advanced Sniper Rifle program.

www.militarytimes.com

Also, ask PHs what they prefer for DG. It's almost always has either two barrels or a claw extractor.

 

[INTJ]

View attachment 1235993

Here it is. You gotta do that stupid cutout on the barrel like a crf mod70 along with a cone

Ooh, I like that! REAL CRF. I had not been able to find a pic of then bolt like that.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

The sun is still shining on M24s and M40s in Afghanistan.

View attachment 1236002

View attachment 1236004

Just like it did 50+ years ago ...

View attachment 1236009

Not for long. Even the military is phasing out all M40 and M24 rifles for more modern designs.

A new sniper rifle for the Army, Marines and SOCOM

The new rifle can be converted to three different calibers.

www.armytimes.com

 

[INTJ]

Cone bolt with CRF face/claw? How does that work? It does sound like a pain to deal with.

Normally cone bolts are never recommended for repeaters. But I guess with CRF cutout on the bottom of the face it could work

They have been using cone bolts in highly reliable claw CRF repeaters for decades, as in the M-70 and I think the M-54 before it.

 

[INTJ]

The cutout on the bolt has no affect on action strength. The strength is based primarily on how far the case head goes into the chamber. Here is how a CRF M-70 looks.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Also, ask PHs what they prefer for DG. It's almost always has either two barrels or a claw extractor.

More dangerous than "game" that shoots back?

But my PHs carried well-worn Mausers.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

They have been using cone bolts in highly reliable claw CRF repeaters for decades, as in the M-70 and I think the M-54 before it.

My questioning with a cone bolt had more to do with magazine feeding. But I see how a cone would be fine with CRF as it still has a nice flat surface on the CRF bolt face cut to grab the rounds from a magazine.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The cutout on the bolt has no affect on action strength. The strength is based primarily on how far the case head goes into the chamber. Here is how a CRF M-70 looks.

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Heres the deviant with crf claw and coned bolt. Eerily familiar