What Next for Remington & Rem 700?

[NZ_Fclass]

If I were Weatherby, I'd be absolutely pounding the Vanguard right now. Different variations, chamberings, price points, etc... I don't think the general hunting and shooting public realize just how close they were in design or the improvements of the Howa action over the 700.

Question - Is Howa at a disadvantage by using metric measurements? Customised Howa's are fairly common in NZ, but we are a " metric country"

But most use do custom stocks, as the Howa offerings are pretty nasty, including some of the factory 3rd party models.

If I wanted a "cheap" Rem 700 right now, it would be Bergara.

 

[DaveTooley]

Question - Is Howa at a disadvantage by using metric measurements? Customised Howa's are fairly common in NZ, but we are a " metric country"

But most use do custom stocks, as the Howa offerings are pretty nasty, including some of the factory 3rd party models.

If I wanted a "cheap" Rem 700 right now, it would be Bergara.

They're at disadvantage in this country. Most lathes have Imperial lead screws which complicates turning metric threads. That means changing gears or at best leaving the saddle engaged and reverse the lathe for each pass. Me, I just change a setting and go back and forth in a few seconds.

 

[DaveTooley]

“All we are asking of Roundhill is to hire our members back to work in the Ilion plant when it is reopened and recognize the UMWA as their collective bargaining representative. That’s it.”
Yep, that's all the unions want.....sure thing

Just a dance going on. There's always Huntsville if or when the music stops and there's not enough chairs.

 

[john 800]

My opinion is a little different than many on this thread, and this isnt so much an argument against anyone, just how I see it: I feel like the 700 is in a tough spot as a mid priced rifle. There are entry level rifles that dont give up much if any quality or accuracy and are perfectly adequate reliable deer killin machines for the guy that shows up at the range with half a box of ammo left from last year the week before deer season, and there are quite a few of those entry level rifles around. For the guy who has a bit more to spend there are alot of choices that do not have the well known issues the late model factoy 700s have, crappy triggers, crappy stocks, and stories of extraction issues. If Remington wants to sell 700s at a profile price point with all the competition available today they better be serious about it, it can be done, but not with stocks and triggers like what has been produced in the last few years. I dont think it needs a major redesign, but it will take a better trigger and stock (or at least the better of what has been available on upper end models) and consistently decent barrels. If I were marketing them I would probably ditch the tupperware entry level 700 and offer a bdl wood, laminate, in addition to a magpull or bell and carlson

 

[FNSafari]

“All we are asking of Roundhill is to hire our members back to work in the Ilion plant when it is reopened and recognize the UMWA as their collective bargaining representative. That’s it.”
Yep, that's all the unions want.....sure thing

IMO they won’t be in NY for very long. It’s way too hostile to a firearms maker. I think the only reason they are opening Illion is to get product out and cash in ASAP. I think these guys are sharp and and know staying in NY would be like trying to choke down a skunk meat dinner.

 

[INTJ]

What is happening to Remington is the same as what happened to Winchester. From 1937-1963 the Model 70 was THE rifle. In 1948 Remington introduced the 721 and 722, which were low end price point rifles they became very popular. They also shot well.

In 1962 the 700 came out and it finally forced Winchester to find a lower cost rifle. Thus the post 64 M-70 came out and was not well received. Later on Winchester reintroduced CRF and settled into a small niche market, where they are today. Those that want a reliable quality hunting rifle for a moderate price buy CRF M-70s. As an action for a custom they offer CRF and are cost effective vs CRF customs.

Remington faced a similar issue when Savage and other low end price point rifles came out. These low end rifles shoot well. So Remington 700s are becoming a niche rifle. You can buy a working rifle for much less, and if you want a higher end rifle there are plenty of high end factory rifles, semi-custom, and customs out there. Unlike CRF M-70s, there are so many actions similar to Remington that there is nothing unique about them.

So I think Rem 700s are well on their way to being a niche rifle for a few customers.

 

[jelenko]

As someone who spent a bunch of years in marketing for semiconductor components, it's an interesting question on how Remington, going forward, would be best positioned in the market.

I think a good question is: Why would someone want to buy a Remington?
With Remington's name recognition and history, I think something 'traditional' that evoked the history and what Remington is known for.
While the current market would probably buy anything they make, their longer term survival may depend on rebuilding their 'brand' - i.e., what does Remington stand for?

Isn't Remington known for both the accuracy of the model 700 and the 870? Maybe they could lead with solid versions of those.
And, as mentioned, the 700 needs to include a trigger and stock worthy of the name and history.

A 'bolder' approach might be to go all in on specific subsegment with a specific product so they can make an attention getting statement - e.g., guaranteeing 1/2 MOA [1/4 MOA would be better] accuracy, the worlds lightest/most reliable hunting rifle, partnering with a chassis manufacturer - the point would be not necessarily based on the market size but more on making a statement.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

There are so many custom action manufacturers out there that utilize the Remington footprint to build high dollar and affordable options. So the 700 design will never die. Their factory actions require so much work to be made right there’s no sense in purchasing one if you ask me. The shit they pulled with buying up all those companies for patent rights and equipment and then firing all the acquired employees was disgraceful. I’d sooner say good riddens to the Remington name and we all move on.

If looking for a similar factory replacement rifle of the 700, Bergara comes pretty close in design but they don’t have the issues you find with a factory Rem 700.

 

[JimT]

What is happening to Remington is the same as what happened to Winchester. From 1937-1963 the Model 70 was THE rifle. In 1948 Remington introduced the 721 and 722, which were low end price point rifles they became very popular. They also shot well.

In 1962 the 700 came out and it finally forced Winchester to find a lower cost rifle. Thus the post 64 M-70 came out and was not well received. Later on Winchester reintroduced CRF and settled into a small niche market, where they are today. Those that want a reliable quality hunting rifle for a moderate price buy CRF M-70s. As an action for a custom they offer CRF and are cost effective vs CRF customs.

Remington faced a similar issue when Savage and other low end price point rifles came out. These low end rifles shoot well. So Remington 700s are becoming a niche rifle. You can buy a working rifle for much less, and if you want a higher end rifle there are plenty of high end factory rifles, semi-custom, and customs out there. Unlike CRF M-70s, there are so many actions similar to Remington that there is nothing unique about them.

So I think Rem 700s are well on their way to being a niche rifle for a few customers.

Where are CRF M-70’s currently made?

 

[Adam in WI]

Where are CRF M-70’s currently made?

Rhetorical question?

 

[JimT]

Rhetorical question?

No

 

[Adam in WI]

No

Assembly is in Portugal. I heard at one time the receivers were still being machined in South Carolina at FN but I can't find anything to confirm that at the moment.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Everybody i see gripe about remington quality and finish bought a $379 special from academy

 

[Rube Shooter]

I'm not griping but I did buy a $379 model 700 from Academy.

Fine tuned it, added a timney trigger and made a switch barrel rifle out of it. 6br, 22-250 and switch bolts I can shoot 223.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Everybody i see gripe about remington quality and finish bought a $379 special from academy

I gripe and never bought one. Just seen so many things wrong with Remington over the years from extraction to timing issues, galled tenon threads, planes of receiver not matching up with scope bases, scope base holes out of alignment, and many other things.
But I have bought a Howa mini barreled action, Howa 1500 long action, and few T/C Venture rifles in the past for around the same price. Both Howa and T/C produce higher quality actions than the Rem 700 with no issues to note.

Still would take a Rem 700 over a Savage tho

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I gripe and never bought one. Just seen so many things wrong with Remington from extraction to timing issues and just about everything else a person can think of.
But I have bought a Howa mini barreled action, Howa 1500 long action, and T/C Venture rifles in the past for around the same price. Both makers produce much higher quality than the Rem 700 with no issues to note.

Still would take a Rem 700 over a Savage tho

Well if you like howa and t/c better than a 700 there you go. Think of how many of each are out there and ask your gunsmith which of the 3 he will even work on. You really should own one- id say 99% of the issues you speak of are from guys that would gripe about a dirty rope at their hanging, the “slow down on the highway in front of my house!” Type guys

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Well if you like howa and t/c better than a 700 there you go. Think of how many of each are out there and ask your gunsmith which of the 3 he will even work on. You really should own one- id say 99% of the issues you speak of are from guys that would gripe about a dirty rope at their hanging, the “slow down on the highway in front of my house!” Type guys

That comment was made in regards to completely untouched factory condition actions. As far as the overall design and factory aftermarket offerings, you can’t beat the 700. But I would still buy a custom made 700 footprint copy before ever buying another factory 700 and having to do a ton of work to make it right.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

That comment was made in regards to completely untouched factory condition actions. As far as the overall design and factory aftermarket offerings, you can’t beat the 700. But I would still buy a custom made 700 footprint copy before ever buying another factory 700 and having to do a ton of work to make it right.

Theyre just fine out of the box for 99.8% of people that have them, even with a new trigger and barrel they work way better than youre led to believe. You dont have to make it a $1000 remington to make it nicer than any other factory action out there.

 

[vonb]

I started out with a Remington 700 30 years ago. I didn't know any better at the time but to me, they were the rifle to have. As I've "aged", I've tried many different brands of rifles over the years. They all have their quirks. However, I'll always have a place for a Remington. The matte finish on the newer ones is about the roughest finish of any rifle out there. The European rifles seem to have more meticulous fit and finish. Fixing fit and finish and holding better tolerances while keeping a decent price point would go a long way.

 

[john 800]

Theyre just fine out of the box for 99.8% of people that have them, even with a new trigger and barrel they work way better than youre led to believe. You dont have to make it a $1000 remington to make it nicer than any other factory action out there.

Sure, 99.8% of shooters would be satisfied with a factory rem 700 IF that was the only game in town. That is far from the situation, of that 99.8% how many would pay the price premium over a savage axis or ruger american or any of the other budget deerkillers? Im not saying the 700 will die, I am just speculating it is a waste of time trying to push the 700 into a lower price point than it fits into. Stop trying to make them so cheap to sell a million with razor thin margins, get the quality up and sell some to the guys willing to pay for it