What is the differance between an F Open 1000yd rifle and a 1000 yd BR Rifle?
- Thread starter hoz53
- Start date
I do not know what the requirements / restrictions are for a Benchrest rifle. However, I can tell you the basics of a "Full-Blown" F-Open rifle.
1.) Can not weigh more than 22 pounds;
2.) For-end of the stock can not exceed 3".
Now for what goes into the rifle; A great action (Bat, Panda, Stiller etc..etc..) a custom barrel, normally with cut rifling BUT not necessary; Barrel will normally be at least 28" but 30 and beyond is becoming the norm. A good stock, i.e. McMillan, Shurley Bros, PR&T "Ray Bowman Low-Boy" and many others. These are seen quite often on the line. Accuracy level, at least for High-Master Classification and someone who is at or near the top of many matches, will "normally" not exceed 5" at 1000 yards. I have seen groups in practice of 5 shots that have been down in the 2-3" range. This does not happen often>>but I have seen it. I saw Matt Davis shoot a full 20 shot match with a vertical of not over 2" at 1000.. That was the single best vertical I have ever witnessed for 20 shots ever!
Now let's hear from a BR guy to see how the F-Open rifles stack up as I really do not know. I have never shot BR past 100-200 and that was over 25 years ago!
1.) Can not weigh more than 22 pounds;
2.) For-end of the stock can not exceed 3".
Now for what goes into the rifle; A great action (Bat, Panda, Stiller etc..etc..) a custom barrel, normally with cut rifling BUT not necessary; Barrel will normally be at least 28" but 30 and beyond is becoming the norm. A good stock, i.e. McMillan, Shurley Bros, PR&T "Ray Bowman Low-Boy" and many others. These are seen quite often on the line. Accuracy level, at least for High-Master Classification and someone who is at or near the top of many matches, will "normally" not exceed 5" at 1000 yards. I have seen groups in practice of 5 shots that have been down in the 2-3" range. This does not happen often>>but I have seen it. I saw Matt Davis shoot a full 20 shot match with a vertical of not over 2" at 1000.. That was the single best vertical I have ever witnessed for 20 shots ever!
Now let's hear from a BR guy to see how the F-Open rifles stack up as I really do not know. I have never shot BR past 100-200 and that was over 25 years ago!
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I have heard tell that you beat them up pretty good up in Montana a time or 2! Not bad for an "F-Classer"! But you definitely sit at or very near the top in F-Open High Master! I am quite sure that did not hurt you in doing well in L/R Benchrest!
hoz53
Gold $$ Contributor
Wow Guys some great info from some great shooters Thanks Much. Now how about calibers? Ive heard of the BR shooters shooting dashers and the F class guys using a 284 or variant or a wsm. Also I notice many Fclass stocks have adjustable combs and not so many of the BR do. Is there something to that? One last thing. what would be the preferred scopes or hopefully scope in the two. Thanks Again
The BR guys shoot mainly 6 Dashers and 300 WSM. Alot of Dashers in the 17 pound class. Mainly because of recoil upsetting the gun and some guys can't handle recoil. Also you can shoot a Dasher faster then a WSM. They both are really accurate and have broken most the records. There was a 6.5x47 broke a couple this year.
A true heavygun weighs usually at least 50 pounds and runs on rails that are attached to the gun. They run on sandbags but the back is run on a mechanical rest for adjustments. They track really good and can usually be shot faster and more accurately. They usually have heavier barrels (1.450), some with brakes but not as many as light guns. The best way to see the difference is go to a shoot. Nothing like hands on and seeing it. Matt
A true heavygun weighs usually at least 50 pounds and runs on rails that are attached to the gun. They run on sandbags but the back is run on a mechanical rest for adjustments. They track really good and can usually be shot faster and more accurately. They usually have heavier barrels (1.450), some with brakes but not as many as light guns. The best way to see the difference is go to a shoot. Nothing like hands on and seeing it. Matt
Lots of good questions and answers from some of the best in the country.
There is a big difference between the two and what it takes to win.
In Br there are two ways to win group size and score.So a caliber like the 6 Dasher which is light on recoil helps because most are trying to get all there shots off as fast and smooth as possible.If the group forms in the 8 ring you can still win if its the smallest for the relay.
In F-class there is time between shots some one has to pull your target and mark it. Therefore a caliber that does better in the wind is an advantage.
You only win if there inside the 10" ten ring and conditions are changing for your 20 shot string.
I have seen Tom shoot his 10 shots in less than 60 seconds.
I have also had target pullers take longer than that at state matches for one shot in F-class.
Hope that helps John
There is a big difference between the two and what it takes to win.
In Br there are two ways to win group size and score.So a caliber like the 6 Dasher which is light on recoil helps because most are trying to get all there shots off as fast and smooth as possible.If the group forms in the 8 ring you can still win if its the smallest for the relay.
In F-class there is time between shots some one has to pull your target and mark it. Therefore a caliber that does better in the wind is an advantage.
You only win if there inside the 10" ten ring and conditions are changing for your 20 shot string.
I have seen Tom shoot his 10 shots in less than 60 seconds.
I have also had target pullers take longer than that at state matches for one shot in F-class.
Hope that helps John
A fast/slow target puller can and does make the difference between a winner and another guy sending rounds down range.
Lloyd
Tied up with the shooting speed issue, BR shooters like smooth and fast operating actions, more often than not two lug. This is less (not?) important in F, especially here in the UK and Canada where we shoot two on the mound, not string. For instance, the four lug Swing to RPA series still sees a lot of use in our F-Open, but rarely in BR - these actions' short, but stiff, bolt lift is undesirable in BR being relatively slow and 'notchy', and the effort needed to lift the bolt more likely to disturb the rifle in the bags.
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
I think Tom Mousel agged in the 3" range at the IBS National's this year Ben.. I agged 6.9" with a 40th finish.. I wonder if F-class is that competitive over aggs? 17 lbs gun or less
Ray
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1,000 yard 'possibles' and V (US 'X') counts in double figures turn up every season in GB F-Class now. For what F-Class rifles can do these days, see the Bulletin piece on Paul Hill's GB league record 900 yard score of 100.17v (200.17x in US-speak) shot at this year's European F-Class Championship meeting at Bisley in September.
Scroll down to November 11th
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/f-class/
That was shooting 'two on the mound' each competitor shooting alternately with his or her partner after marking. A typical 20-shot match relay takes 30-40 minutes under these conditions. Although the winds were 'moderate' over that weekend, this was no flat calm or anywhere near it. If you look at the target centre pic, the 17 Vs were all inside the line, therefore in a 5 to 5.5 inch group and the other three 'fives' weren't far outside of the V circle.
Scroll down to November 11th
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/f-class/
That was shooting 'two on the mound' each competitor shooting alternately with his or her partner after marking. A typical 20-shot match relay takes 30-40 minutes under these conditions. Although the winds were 'moderate' over that weekend, this was no flat calm or anywhere near it. If you look at the target centre pic, the 17 Vs were all inside the line, therefore in a 5 to 5.5 inch group and the other three 'fives' weren't far outside of the V circle.
Thank You All! For this discussion.
lawman29
Gold $$ Contributor
Equipment list for F-Open at 2016 Berger SW Nationals: http://www.bergerbullets.com/SW_Nationals/2016-swn-equipment-list-open.pdf
From the list generally: Nightforce Scope (competition), Berger Bullet (180) fired from a straight .284 or Shehane, SEB or Farley rest and Jewell trigger... You will also see a lot of RBRP, adjust cheek & butt... If you go to the Berger website lots of photos of firing line - quite a variety... http://www.bergerbullets.com/swn/past-matches/
From the list generally: Nightforce Scope (competition), Berger Bullet (180) fired from a straight .284 or Shehane, SEB or Farley rest and Jewell trigger... You will also see a lot of RBRP, adjust cheek & butt... If you go to the Berger website lots of photos of firing line - quite a variety... http://www.bergerbullets.com/swn/past-matches/
You can't do that picking brass out of a Savage,now for F-class not a problem you have the time.
.....and a chair
So let's see been doing this for 20 years, an F-class is going to keep up. huh! A good wind reader and a super speed trigger puller could get close. There are still some basic requirements that are necessary, like a very good rest and some incredibly good reloading techniques!
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