What is currently a competitive 100 yrd benchrest group ?

[Shrek]

What do the rifle and shooter need to be capable of to be competitive ( top ten ) in 100 yard benchrest competition at a national level event ?
Perfect conditions not atmospheric adjustments.

 

[Uthink Uknow]

Check out benchrest central dot com. They just posted that a .200 aggregate was good enough for 20th place at the NBRSA National at Holton.
I once shot an 0.088 and it was good for third place in smallest group.
I also shot an. 0.038 at Dublin and that did win small group.

 

[Tim Singleton]

This should answer

 

[JD9000]

This should answer

.2974 aggregate = 86th place.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

And thats only the HV100 agg. Put together 4 guns and 2 yardages and that 1/4” agg may put you farther down

 

[Kermit in Va.]

WOW...
That's some good shootin...


Kermit

 

[wanttobe]

Check out benchrest central dot com. They just posted that a .200 aggregate was good enough for 20th place at the NBRSA National at Holton.
I once shot an 0.088 and it was good for third place in smallest group.
I also shot an. 0.038 at Dublin and that did win small group.

That is the best I have ever heard of. Great
Was that a three or five shot group? and how was that measured, center to center?

 

[alinwa]

That is the best I have ever heard of. Great
Was that a three or five shot group? and how was that measured, center to center?

3 shots is not a "group" it's an excuse.

5 shots is a group and 5 consecutive groups of 5 rounds each (25 shots) is an agg (aggregate)

Measurements are taken under magnification using a caliper device with optical comparator rings.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

3 shots is not a "group" it's an excuse.

5 shots is a group and 5 consecutive groups of 5 rounds each (25 shots) is an agg (aggregate)

Measurements are taken under magnification using a caliper device with optical comparator rings.

The aggs we are witnessing now are nothing short of phenomenal! I think it's a combination of improvements made in barrels, bullets, jackets and shooting, as well as more people using tuners(aggs are where tuners really shine)...but WOW! It's not been long ago that an honest .250 rifle could win in this game. Good luck with that today! Mid teen aggs are very much becoming the norm now.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Lets take mike conry’s agg from this gun:
.094, .169, .157, .294, .119 for an agg of .1666- thats coming back to the line probably over an hour inbetween groups, with a clean gun, and laying down 5 more shots in 7 minutes AND still being close enough to being in tune to shoot another group and stay in first. Thats some great shooting only slipping above 1/8” once. Everybody should go try this game. Itll make you a master at gun handling, rest setup, equipment condition, loading techniques, and atmospheric conditions. One slip up will put you mid pack or worse

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Lets take mike conry’s agg from this gun:
.094, .169, .157, .294, .119 for an agg of .1666- thats coming back to the line probably over an hour inbetween groups, with a clean gun, and laying down 5 more shots in 7 minutes AND still being close enough to being in tune to shoot another group and stay in first. Thats some great shooting only slipping above 1/8” once. Everybody should go try this game. Itll make you a master at gun handling, rest setup, equipment condition, loading techniques, and atmospheric conditions. One slip up will put you mid pack or worse

Still easier than score shooting though! Lol!

 

[natdscott]

Everybody should go try this game. Itll make you a master at gun handling, rest setup, equipment condition, loading techniques, and atmospheric conditions. One slip up will put you mid pack or worse

A lot of shooters would say it doesn't teach you a whole lot about "handling" a rifle at all. I wouldn't, per se, because I study many types of shooting, but I've learned that nearly all the sports are challenging, not that you said otherwise.

BR and F-Class, and CERTAINLY Rimfire BR all strike me as excellent ways to learn equipment/ammo tuning and wind reading. The resolution level of mistakes in any of those areas is so much higher than if you are holding the gun, therefore the learning curve---in those areas---is extremely steep to try to be competitive.

I'd like to try BR some day. That day just isn't today.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

A lot of shooters would say it doesn't teach you a whole lot about "handling" a rifle at all. I wouldn't, per se, because I study many types of shooting, but I've learned that nearly all the sports are challenging, not that you said otherwise.

BR and F-Class, and CERTAINLY Rimfire BR all strike me as excellent ways to learn equipment/ammo tuning and wind reading. The resolution level of mistakes in any of those areas is so much higher than if you are holding the gun, therefore the learning curve---in those areas---is extremely steep to try to be competitive.

I'd like to try BR some day. That day just isn't today.

Thats why you should try it. A 10.5lb rifle with a 2 oz trigger will teach you more about gun handling in one day than a 16 or 21lb gun will in years. Even the 13.5lb rifles hide mistakes. With a 10.5lb gun you can even tell what sand and bag material works and doesnt. A rimfire at 100yds may be comparable but at 50 it isnt (ive shot plenty of rimfire br)

 

[natdscott]

Oh, I don't pretend to be THAT knowledgeable about the different types of BR. I just read the books and use the data and technology that you all continue to discover for us! I have nothing but respect for what is being done, and the road that brought BR here. It's absurd that many of the rest of us want our rifles to shoot like an LV or HV rig, even though we are pressed to keep our rounds in 1 Minute circles, but hey, the advancements y'all have helped achieve HAVE made it so some of our rifles are legitimately 1/4 Minute...something that would have WON a BR match not so long ago. I look at groups from an AR in the 5's, and think "Hm. That should be better."

How CRAZY is that?!

But I'd argue, successfully, that if BR is the ONLY type of shooting a person has done with rifles, they are not yet qualified to discuss rifle "handling" in it's various elegant facets.

How much could a BR guy learn about rifle shooting with a 10m pistol? I bet plenty, even though the target is sorta huge by BR standards.

There are a lot of sorta "gold standards"... a 1.5 MOA hold in Offhand...1/2 MOA with a sling prone position...36 or better in Silhouette...and it sounds like maybe 0.050"? is the current State-of-the-Field in Short Range BR. All of those are worth chasing with your time in this life, I think.

But doing only ONE of any of the various ways to drive rifles is a sure way to be a ONE dimensional shooter.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming. Sorry for the tangent.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Oh, I don't pretend to be THAT knowledgeable about the different types of BR. I just read the books and use the data and technology that you all continue to discover for us! I have nothing but respect for what is being done, and the road that brought BR here.

But I'd argue, successfully, that if BR is the ONLY type of shooting a person has done with rifles, they are not yet qualified to discuss rifle "handling" in it's various elegant facets.

How much could a BR guy learn about rifle shooting with a 10m pistol? I bet plenty, even though the target is sorta huge by BR standards.

There are a lot of sorta "gold standards"... a 1.5 MOA hold in Offhand...1/2 MOA with a sling prone position...36 or better in Silhouette...and it sounds like maybe 0.050"? is the current State-of-the-Field in Short Range BR. All of those are worth chasing with your time in this life, I think.

But doing only ONE of any of the various ways to drive rifles is a sure way to be a ONE dimensional shooter.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming. Sorry for the tangent.

I actually have done all you listed and currently do even more. In br we get competitors that used to do every sport from high power, bullseye, palma, archery even shotguns at the highest level of those games. Thats how i know how hard it is to do the other games and how much its amplified competing in br compared to the other sports. Silhouette is the hardest of all the shooting sports, besides maybe biathlon, but you can shoot silhouette and win with a factory rifle that shoots 1/2moa. Im still chasing a 36 but i do have all 4 ten pins (just if i can get them all at once)

 

[natdscott]

Im still chasing a 36 but i do have all 4 ten pins (just if i can get them all at once)

I know what ya mean. My Service Rifle PRs all total 793 with about 44 X, but I'm not in the 792 club.

10 pins are tough...finding lots of competition in that sport is tougher. Damn shame too...other than maybe Free Pistol, I totally agree about the difficulty level. I shoot rimfire Silo, and have my own 20 animal range to help with that, but I'd have to drive 8 hours to even enter a Centerfire match, so that's a non-starter.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I know what ya mean. My Service Rifle PRs all total 793 with about 44 X, but I'm not in the 792 club.

10 pins are tough...finding lots of competition in that sport is tougher. Damn shame too...other than maybe Free Pistol, I totally agree about the difficulty level. I shoot rimfire Silo, and have my own 20 animal range to help with that, but I'd have to drive 8 hours to even enter a Centerfire match, so that's a non-starter.

I have swingers for silo practice. Sure is fun

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

imho, based on having competed at the Super Shoot, Black Powder and regular Silhouette matches and some long range; the most difficult type of competition would be Schuetzen.

1. You have to learn to cast, in my case, a run of 300-350 .32 caliber 215 gr bullets in an afternoon, and hold less than half a grain spread from lightest to heaviest.
2. You then need to find a 3/4moa load at 200 yards. The 25-ring is 1.5" at 200yds. That's for ten shot groups. NO sissy 5-shot stuff.
3. You need to shoot four matches in one at a shoot. All will be 10-shot groups. You will fire 1/4th of your targets offhand with iron sights, 1/4th offhand with a scope, 1/4th from the bench with iron sights, and 1/4th from the bench with a scope. At the Nationals you will shoot five targets, for a total of 50 shots at each of the four legs.

It's why Schuetzen is not more popular, it's work to compete at a high level.

 

[dolek]

A lot of shooters would say it doesn't teach you a whole lot about "handling" a rifle at all. I wouldn't, per se, because I study many types of shooting, but I've learned that nearly all the sports are challenging, not that you said otherwise.

BR and F-Class, and CERTAINLY Rimfire BR all strike me as excellent ways to learn equipment/ammo tuning and wind reading. The resolution level of mistakes in any of those areas is so much higher than if you are holding the gun, therefore the learning curve---in those areas---is extremely steep to try to be competitive.

I'd like to try BR some day. That day just isn't today.

Try it,then you have the right to voice your opinion . That part about not learning "gun handling"...now that just shows you are uneducated in this field,only one way to learn.

 

[D Coots]

Gun handling. I can slap the trigger on my 125# rail gun and you can see the result on the target.

Tuners. Nothing against them, but I would wager 7 of the top 10 at Holton we're not using them.

Later
Dave