What happened to Norma Powders?

[Sebrock]

I am loving URP and 204 for my 6.5x47 but slowly running out of the supply I originally ordered from Powder Valley. I recently asked them when they were getting more in (or if they were getting more in at some point) and they say they aren't expecting any future shipments at all. I went on the trusty inter-webs and found other small dealers and inquired there, and they too no longer carry it. I emailed Western/Ramshot and got no response back. Anyone have any insight? Anything similar anyone can recommend that isn't unbotanium like H4350. I have N555 which seems to model similarly in GRT - hopefully this will be available again some time in the foreseeable future - before I run out. Staball 6.5 which I also have models to 95% case capacity where I start reaching theoretical pressure, as well as low 2700s, but will try that too.

 

[WyleWD]

Did you ever use any Norma 202?

Like you I've got no responses from Western. And as much as I hate to say it I don't think it is going to get much better any time soon. WD

 

[Sebrock]

Did you ever use any Norma 202?

Like you I've got no responses from Western. And as much as I hate to say it I don't think it is going to get much better any time soon. WD

Nope only 204 and URP. Unfortunately I think you are right. It’s strange being able to find primers now, but powder has disappeared.

 

[choprzrul]

I talked to Western a few months ago and they no longer are associated with Norma powders. Powder Valley essentially sold all remaining inventory from Western and they no longer have a supplier for Norma powder.

There is a Florida Norma location/importer that I have been able to find via Norma’s website, but it’s buried deep and very difficult to find. I’ve called the number provided, but nobody ever answered.

I suspect you will need to talk to someone in Europe if you want straight answers.

 

[Sebrock]

I talked to Western a few months ago and they no longer are associated with Norma powders. Powder Valley essentially sold all remaining inventory from Western and they no longer have a supplier for Norma powder.

There is a Florida Norma location/importer that I have been able to find via Norma’s website, but it’s buried deep and very difficult to find. I’ve called the number provided, but nobody ever answered.

I suspect you will need to talk to someone in Europe if you want straight answers.

Thank you for the insight. I will see if I can get in touch with them in Europe. If I find anything out, I will post here.

 

[choprzrul]

Thank you for the insight. I will see if I can get in touch with them in Europe. If I find anything out, I will post here.

I found the Florida contact info again.....they hide this pretty well??

Contact Norma

Do you need to contact us at Norma? Here you find Norma's visiting address, email address and phone number

www.norma-ammunition.com

Contact - Norma Shooting

normashooting.com

I sent an email to the above email address and then used their 'contact' page to submit a question. In both cases, I asked when and where I can find more Norma powder. If I hear something from them, I'll post it up.

 

[Sebrock]

I found the Florida contact info again.....they hide this pretty well??

View attachment 1294927

Contact Norma

Do you need to contact us at Norma? Here you find Norma's visiting address, email address and phone number

www.norma-ammunition.com

Contact - Norma Shooting

normashooting.com

I sent an email to the above email address and then used their 'contact' page to submit a question. In both cases, I asked when and where I can find more Norma powder. If I hear something from them, I'll post it up.

Excellent. I contacted Norma in Europe and asked the same thing. Will let you know what I find. Will call the US number too. Maybe more people inquiring will help.

 

[Mulligan]

I went to the dealer locator on the Norma website

The way some nations are spelled caught my eye.
CW

 

[Fuj]

I always heard good things about 203-B, just never seen it
on the shelves even in good times

 

[Chuckhunter]

I always heard good things about 203-B, just never seen it
on the shelves even in good times

When I ran low on RL-15, I substituted N-203B. Burn rate and pressures were almost identical. Bought six pounds from Powder Valley, they had a good supply at the time. Sad to hear P.V. will no longer be handling it, it's a very good powder.

 

[Laurie]

I always heard good things about 203-B, just never seen it
on the shelves even in good times

It's Alliant Re15 under a different label.

 

[WyleWD]

It's Alliant Re15 under a different label.

That makes sense and explains a few things. What do you know about N202 and or N201??? WD

 

[choprzrul]

YMMV.....but.... http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/09/alliant-reloder-15-vs-norma-203b-the-numbers-tell-all/

 

[snoopy001]

When I ran low on RL-15, I substituted N-203B. Burn rate and pressures were almost identical. Bought six pounds from Powder Valley, they had a good supply at the time. Sad to hear P.V. will no longer be handling it, it's a very good powder.

I'm from Europe ,we do have the same problems regarding some kind of powders ,that means
Norma and almost various Hodgon and IMR powders.No problem at all,we have Vihtavuori,Lovex and Reload Swiss prompt available, all of them are top quality powders. If other manufacturers are sleeping then the shall disapear from the market, where is the problem??
Kind regards
snoopy

 

[Gary O'Neal]

I talked to Western a few months ago and they no longer are associated with Norma powders. Powder Valley essentially sold all remaining inventory from Western and they no longer have a supplier for Norma powder.

There is a Florida Norma location/importer that I have been able to find via Norma’s website, but it’s buried deep and very difficult to find. I’ve called the number provided, but nobody ever answered.

I suspect you will need to talk to someone in Europe if you want straight answers.

My brother in law is a licensed ffl dealer and has tried contacting Norma/Fla numerous times about stocking their ammo. He has told them he will commit to any amount they say. After several weeks, he has yet to have a return call from anyone in sales.

 

[Fuj]

This is all interesting especially that R- 15.5 is out now, but of
course can't be found either There was a quick tease about 2
months ago and all was snapped up. Could there be a newer
version of 203-B on the horizon ??

 

[Sebrock]

When I ran low on RL-15, I substituted N-203B. Burn rate and pressures were almost identical. Bought six pounds from Powder Valley, they had a good supply at the time. Sad to hear P.V. will no longer be handling it, it's a very good powder.

What would be the reloader equivalent of 204 or URP. RL16? RL17 did not work well in either 6.5 creed or 6.5x47.

 

[Laurie]

What would be the reloader equivalent of 204 or URP. RL16? RL17 did not work well in either 6.5 creed or 6.5x47.

There isn't a direct equivalent to this pair in the Alliant range. URP is a step faster burning than N204 which in turn is very similar in burn rate terms to H4350. N204 can give higher MVs than H4350, but needs a case with enough room to accommodate a larger and slightly bulkier charge. N204 is mild double-based, 4.5% nitroglycerin content; URP is a hot number - 10.5% nitroglycerin. Only MRP has a higher % and not by much. URP should work well in 6.5X47 Lapua if you can find any. Lyman's slim paperback manual called 'The long-Range Precision Rifle Reloading Manual has URP loads for 6.5X47L and 6.5mm Creedmoor with a 'most accurate' award for one bullet in each.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lyman-Prec...T,B08N1SJ3WX,B08MWPKJ3Y,1660025052,1660020360

I've just finished a review of a four part feature on H4350/H414 alternatives in the UK / Europe since neither Hodgdon grade can now be imported over here.

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk

and scroll down below the home page pics and links to the column headed 'Recent Articles' to those called 'Reach Out!'

This series also covers Re16 and 17 among others.

Re17 is one of Alliant's Swiss manufactured 'EI' infused deterrent / 'High-Energy' powders from Nitrochemie Wimmins AG. Most Re grades including the TZ grades and AR-Comp which uses the same technology come from Eurenco Bofors in Sweden which also manufactures all Norma canister grade propellants. You cannot compare the Bofors and Nitrochemie powders directly because of their different technologies and sources.

 

[Laurie]

That makes sense and explains a few things. What do you know about N202 and or N201??? WD

Mildly double-based (4.5% nitroglycerin IIRC) and short cut extruded powders. According to Norma's burn-rate chart - which is of a completely different type to everybody else's based on same charge weight of each powder in a 308 Win load tested for pressure/MV and indexed against IMR-4350 - N201 is close to H4895 and N202 is only slightly faster burning than 203-B/Re15 (but the latter has a higher nitroglycerin level). That makes 202 maybe close to VarGet, bit faster burning if there is a difference.

https://www.norma-ammunition.com/en-gb/reloading-data

You'll find the burn rate chart in here.

I'd say N201 is faster burning than H4895 though in practical terms. I wouldn't want to load it up as much. Same applications such as 222 and 223 Rem, the latter with lighter bullets up to 55gn and thereabouts. For heavier bullets in 223 and standard / mid-weight bullets in 308 Win N202 is better and/or 203-B/Re15 beyond a certain point. I had good, but not my very best results with 223 and the 77gn SMK in a longer than Wylde chamber and long-barrel F rifle with 202. 0.4gn less than my top H4895 'benchmark' charge gave similar MVs. I have yet to try 201 in this rifle with the 77.

 

[Sebrock]

There isn't a direct equivalent to this pair in the Alliant range. URP is a step faster burning than N204 which in turn is very similar in burn rate terms to H4350. N204 can give higher MVs than H4350, but needs a case with enough room to accommodate a larger and slightly bulkier charge. N204 is mild double-based, 4.5% nitroglycerin content; URP is a hot number - 10.5% nitroglycerin. Only MRP has a higher % and not by much. URP should work well in 6.5X47 Lapua if you can find any. Lyman's slim paperback manual called 'The long-Range Precision Rifle Reloading Manual has URP loads for 6.5X47L and 6.5mm Creedmoor with a 'most accurate' award for one bullet in each.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lyman-Precision-Rifle-Reloading-Handbook/dp/B07952XHJ8/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=lyman+long+range+precision+rifle+manual&qid=1637773635&qsid=257-0370018-6703523&sr=8-2&sres=B07952XHJ8,B08MWDJQ9N,B08N1BM3NT,B08N1SJ3WX,B08MWPKJ3Y,1660025052,1660020360

I've just finished a review of a four part feature on H4350/H414 alternatives in the UK / Europe since neither Hodgdon grade can now be imported over here.

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk

and scroll down below the home page pics and links to the column headed 'Recent Articles' to those called 'Reach Out!'

This series also covers Re16 and 17 among others.

Re17 is one of Alliant's Swiss manufactured 'EI' infused deterrent / 'High-Energy' powders from Nitrochemie Wimmins AG. Most Re grades including the TZ grades and AR-Comp which uses the same technology come from Eurenco Bofors in Sweden which also manufactures all Norma canister grade propellants. You cannot compare the Bofors and Nitrochemie powders directly because of their different technologies and sources.

Thanks Laurie. URP models amazingly in the 6.5x47 with 99% case fill, 15% under max pressure and 100% burn rate. 204 seems to give slightly faster MVs but has only a 94% burn rate. Starting my load development so have ladders in both that I’m going to be testing next week. I’m hoping I can buy these again in the future. Thanks for the links!! FYI great article - I have N555 as well. Had nice results in my 6.5 creedmoor but needed 104% fill to get to a decent pressure and MV. I was getting good SDs but not great ES (maybe from the compression of the powder?). Interestingly enough it models better in the 6.5x47. Will have to do some testing with it as it might be my go to after I run out of 204 and URP (I have about a barrels life worth).