What does everyone think of this carbon ring removal method

[Nude nut]

Fellows, I think that there is a bit of misunderstanding going on here, in that there are two separate issues that happen very close together. The first is a buildup of powder fouling at the front of the neck part of the chamber. This can be remedied by any means that reaches that part of the chamber with some scrubbing action and solvent. The second issue is hard carbon buildup at the start of the freebore. Hard carbon is so hard that no solvent that I know of will touch it except for possiblyCRL and I have never tried that approach and would not describe it as a gun cleaning product. What is left is something like IOSSO used properly and carefully, no more than is needed, the particulars of this being material for another thread. Getting back to the confusion, calling powder fouling carbon fouling is IMO at the root of this. Particularly since we have something called hard carbon, which is probably metamorphosed powder fouling, but very different when it comes to what is needed to remove it.

 

[Nude nut]

Boyd,
Plug your barrel just ahead of the chamber get 250 mls of boiling water dissolve a teaspoon or two of citric acid and pour it in let it sit for abit then spin your bronze brush in the neck area of the chamber tip out and repeat.
You can use a battery drill but dont ram it into the rifling and turn slow this has worked on many a barrel I have posted this before in the past.

Cheers Trev.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Boyd,
Plug your barrel just ahead of the chamber get 250 mls of boiling water dissolve a teaspoon or two of citric acid and pour it in let it sit for abit then spin your bronze brush in the neck area of the chamber tip out and repeat.
You can use a battery drill but dont ram it into the rifling and turn slow this has worked on many a barrel I have posted this before in the past.

Cheers Trev.

What are you using to plug the barrel?

 

[Texas10]

I posted some pics and procedures a short time ago about carbon build up in the throat and how to clean but I can't find them. So I'm posting the pics again.

This is a 223 Rem I was shooting but began to have trouble chambering rounds and especially when trying to eject a live round, which wanted to stick in the chamber. These loads had the bullet seated into the lands. In the first pic you can see carbon buildup at the end of the chamber as well as the throat. Copper is being deposited in the throat as the bullet is chambered, and my first clue to what was happening was when I ejected a live round with some difficulty and noticed the scraping on the bullet ogive.

The second pic is the same barrel after a brief cleaning using bronze brush and Slip 2000 carbon remover. It took all of about a minutes' worth of effort with the brush to get this result.

 

[Uncle Ed]

The British would pore 5 to 6 pints of boiling water down the bore to remove the primer salts and carbon from the chamber and bore. If you read Hemingways "The Snows of Kilimanjaro" the same method was used on hunting safaris in Africa.

 

[Uncle Ed]

If you do not want to boil water then foam bore cleaner will remove the carbon and copper in the bore.

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The primary reason for using any type of cleaning preparation in the barrel of a firearm is to remove those agents left behind which would adversely affect the accuracy of the particular firearm and its use life.

If this were not the case we could shoot endlessly with no recourse but to bring on more ammunition. Unfortunately, firearms have a fatal flaw. The products of combustion and metal fouling from bullet materials, and carbon which is a product of burning powder, produce a deteriorating effect on the accuracy of a given firearm. As these residues build up inside the barrel; accuracy decreases conversely.

It is the removal of these four types of fouling: 1. Powder fouling (smokeless or blackpowder) 2. Metal fouling (copper or lead alloy) 3. Carbon , 4. Molybdenum (usually introduced by the use of Molybdenum coated bullets), which will restore accuracy in a barrel whose usable life is still viable.

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[jds holler]

I sometimes wonder if the "carbon ring" issue is kind of like the Covid.

It may a problem that one or two percent of guys have a problem with, and the other 98 percent of us worry ourselves into a tizzy about it.

Sorry, I can't help it. Interesting analogies are a hobby of mine. jd

 

[BoydAllen]

I sometimes wonder if the "carbon ring" issue is kind of like the Covid.

It may a problem that one or two percent of guys have a problem with, and the other 98 percent of us worry ourselves into a tizzy about it.

Sorry, I can't help it. Interesting analogies are a hobby of mine. jd

If you have a bore scope, which I assume that you do since you are commenting on something that would require one to have knowledge of, and you have done a thorough brush and patch cleaning but have some black right at the back of the freebore, just past the end of the chamber neck, and no matter how hard you scrub with whatever solvent it remains, then what you have fits the definition of what I, and some others refer to as hard carbon. Anyone who is posting on this thread who does not have a bore scope is unlikely to have ANY experience with the subject. There is at least one powder that I have never seen cause this, VV 133, which I have shot quite a bit of, and have been able to keep those barrels clean with Butch's, patches, and bronze brushes. There may be more. Perhaps some of you can educate us about your experiences. Back in the day when Tony Boyer was still shooting T powder, he told an interviewer (probably Dick Wright) that he short stroked IOSSO on a nylon brush in the back third and throat of his barrels between every match. Evidently that powder, as good as it was, was particularly prone to forming hard carbon deposits. I would understand someone not believing me on this, but suggest that he probably knows a thing or two about barrel cleaning, and what is required to keep up with that powder.

 

[Fotheringill]

I don't want to take a chance on the earlier demise of a barrel or having to get it shortened. I use the dedicated BoreTech copper and carbon removers. They work. There may be better products out there but, frankly, I have a lifetime supply (mine anyway) of various cleaners from a myriad of manufacturers ranging from CLP and Hoppe's to Butch's to Wipe Out and everything else.

 

[BoydAllen]

Boyd,
Plug your barrel just ahead of the chamber get 250 mls of boiling water dissolve a teaspoon or two of citric acid and pour it in let it sit for abit then spin your bronze brush in the neck area of the chamber tip out and repeat.
You can use a battery drill but dont ram it into the rifling and turn slow this has worked on many a barrel I have posted this before in the past.

Cheers Trev.

Has not heard of that one before. Thanks for posting.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

Go to your local marine dealer for Evinrude and get a spray can of "Engine tuner" this is a carbon solvent that will not harm any metals or even rubber seals. Plug the end of your barrel and spray a few second blast in there, it foams up and dissolves away all carbon. I actually soak used pistons in a coffee can full during rebuilds and the pistons look like new, removes all carbon from the ring lands.

 

[Nude nut]

What are you using to plug the barrel?

Old ear plug.
I also use mercury tune for carbon but real stubbon carbon I use citric acid it wont harm your barrel Im still shooting old barrels for club use with 7000 rounds through them and the es on that load is 5 over a 12 round string.
The ear plug is just to contain the water in the chamber area.

Cheers Trev.

 

[Nude nut]

Has not heard of that one before. Thanks for posting.

Boyd,
I replied do dusty read that reply.

Cheers Trev.

 

[Nude nut]

Go to your local marine dealer for Evinrude and get a spray can of "Engine tuner" this is a carbon solvent that will not harm any metals or even rubber seals. Plug the end of your barrel and spray a few second blast in there, it foams up and dissolves away all carbon. I actually soak used pistons in a coffee can full during rebuilds and the pistons look like new, removes all carbon from the ring lands.

I use mercury tune it works great just like the evinrude brand it gets it out for sure.

Cheers Trev.

 

[DaveTooley]

I start every cleaning session in the shop with a soaking of Quicksilver marine engine cleaner.

 

[Davey Boy]

Maybe I'm mistaken but is this the carbon ring. This is a .223 Cal. I'm new to having a borescope, and as one member said it can cause all sorts of confusion. That's why I wondered about the cut off neck method. Just trying to learn.

 

[JMayo]

If that pic is your bore you're doing a great job !
I think things have evolved past that particular crude method you spoke o of.
Chemicals have come a long way.
I spin, by hand, my brush in that area and it keeps it at bay.
If you want to know my whole regimen ....
that's another thread.

 

[Davey Boy]

If that pic is your bore you're doing a great job !
I think things have evolved past that particular crude method you spoke o of.
Chemicals have come a long way.
I spin, by hand, my brush in that area and it keeps it at bay.
If you want to know my whole regimen ....
that's another thread.

\

Yes that is my bore. But that dark ring is it not the Carbon Ring or am I mistaken?

 

[Uncle Ed]

Maybe I'm mistaken but is this the carbon ring. This is a .223 Cal. I'm new to having a borescope, and as one member said it can cause all sorts of confusion. That's why I wondered about the cut off neck method. Just trying to learn.

Below is your chamber/throat bore scope photo and below that is a chamber/throat image. I think what you are seeing is the end of the chamber's neck and the beginning of the throat. In my Image, it is labeled "Length Clearance" with the angled ramp before the throat.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

Below is your chamber/throat bore scope photo and below that is a chamber/throat image. I think what you are seeing is the end of the chamber's neck and the beginning of the throat. In my Image, it is labeled "Length Clearance" with the angled ramp before the throat.

Good job on the pic, also clearly shows the danger involved with letting your brass "grow" too long. Jams into the length clearance ramp and crimps your bullet for you,... not good!