What cartridge is better for Elk and Mule Deer...

[Todd DuBose]

Thanks to everyone that has commented on the Best Cartridge so far. I guess I need to Clarify a few things so Everyone knows what My Main Question is and was. First of all, I want to build her the Best...Cartridge for Mule Deer and Elk. This is Not...Her First Rodeo as she has been hunting since she was a kid. Shooting the 243 Winchester and a 270 Winchester to kill both. She also hunts the Blackpowder Season with a 50 Cal. so I know she can handle the kick. She might be 115 lbs. But she is Not Scared to do what it takes. I want to build her that Special Rifle that she will be Proud to shoot and not be worried about the Kick,Noise or where it will shoot.She Loves the Outdoors and is passing it on to her kids as she is a Single Mom. And Yes, She has a Boyfriend!! Ha!! I just want to know what the Best...Cartridge for both would be. Guess I should have tried to take a Poll...Thanks for all the input but now I am back to Square One...

 

[savagedasher]

All three of my grandkids shoot a 50 cal black powder also with 150 gr of pellets but they don't kick. Bostrom gun smith put Muzzle Brakes on them. Not only do they don't kick they shoot better. The recoil is like a heavy 22-250 with lite loads. Larry

 

[stool]

308 win......plain and simple.
as has been said it will take north american game
everything from 125 to 165 for the girl.....
professional hunters and writers agree a 308 win with a 165 hunting bullet is all most need for north america.
308 win hands down( 300 savage will work but is harder to find so why bother..)
heck i'd guess a 30-30 with the new hornady tipped bullets will work.

 

[XTR]

This is Not...Her First Rodeo as she has been hunting since she was a kid. Shooting the 243 Winchester and a 270 Winchester to kill both. She also hunts the Blackpowder Season with a 50 Cal. so I know she can handle the kick. She might be 115 lbs. But she is Not Scared to do what it takes.

OK, you are the one who cringed at the 300WM idea and sent the folks looking for something with lightest recoil.

Did you expect everyone to agree!? You can't get 5 guys to agree on what bullet in a single caliber.

You need to decide, can she handle something in a long action? You shut down the 300 WM option, so that pretty much sent all the magnums to the door. They all recoil.

Now we're down to long action or short action. If she can shoot a 270 then maybe there is your answer, or a 280Rem or maybe even an '06.

If you want to get lighter then go with a 308 or a 7-08.

All of them will kill mulies or elk at reasonable ranges. There is no best cartridge unless you're righting an article for a hunting magazine the the 308Win7mmRM280Rem270Win300WRSAUMWSM is in fact the best.

 

[Todd DuBose]

It's really simple...The 7mm Mag is probably too much rifle for someone as light as she is to shoot. 30 caliber magnums kick... Some of you are going to argue the point that you can shoot one without flinching. I call BS...I shoot a 30-378 Weatherby here in Texas and catch myself yanking the trigger. Remember, This rifle kicks less than my 308 Winchester with the brake I have on it and the bullet I shoot with it...I have never hunted Elk and if I did, Wouldnt hesitate in shooting my combination on them out to whatever yardage I had to. The rifle I want to build her is going to be a dream rifle that she will take enjoyment in shooting and not be scared of it. So, As far as me saying this or saying that, I will say if you dont like my questions, Go find another thread to comment on. If you have a Posotive add, Then, By all means, Leave a comment. Thank You...I am getting off my soap box now...

 

[Lapua40X]

Choosing a hunting rifle caliber for a wide range of game requires only that we understand the largest game sought. If it'll take an elk, it'll take a deer.
I'm a little confused with your description of the shooter. She either is or is not recoil sensitive. She can't be both. If she can handle the recoil of a high powered rifle equipped with a muzzle brake get her a Remington 700 7mm SAUM. She can use it on safari if she chooses.

 

[Todd DuBose]

I would like to have input from Wise... People that might have been through the same ordeal of having a Daughter that Loves to shoot and I Really dont want to build her a Rifle that she wont use because it kicks the Crap out of her...She has stated she Does Not Like the Noise from a Muzzle Brake so that Weans the Big Magnums Out...If it werent for that, I would send her a 30-378 Weatherby and Never Look Back...But I know that is not to be the case. Now, We are back to something Bigger than the 270 Winchester....Thoughts??

 

[Alex Wheeler]

If you reload you can adjust the load to suite her recoil tolerance.

 

[dkhunt14]

With good hearing protection either plugs or Muffs when shooting a brake makes it tolerable. I use Pro Ear Gold model Predator. You can hear everything but shuts down the boom, they are slimmer so stock doesn't interfere. Probably couldn't go wrong with a 7 RSAUM. Good accuracy and foot pounds of energy and not as much recoil as other Magnums. With a good shot in vitals a lot of guns will work but if the shot is off a bit the power of a magnum helps with a big animal such as an elk. A 7 RSAUM with a brake would be easy for her to handle and have plenty of knockdown with a 180 grain Berger.

 

[XTR]

Now, We are back to something Bigger than the 270 Winchester....Thoughts??

Recoil is a function of the physics of mass x acceleration. There is actually a free recoil calculator on the JBM site Here You may want to run some numbers

Bigger than a 270, smaller than a belted magnum. 280Rem, '06Spr, 284Win, or maybe a short magnum.

You may want to look at a 284Win built on a short action. It can push 140 or 150 class bullets a bit faster than a 7-08, probably in the 3000FPS range. The rifle will be more compact and lighter on the short action, and the recoil should be manageable. That said, my 7-08 gets an honest 2900+MV from 140 Accubonds. I'd bet it would get the same from the 140 Partition. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot that at an elk inside of 300 yards, and it's still carrying 1500ft*lbs all the way to 350 yards. We all shoot the gun we have because we like it. I think the 7-08 hits a pretty sweet balance in a hunting rifle. Now, is it better than a 270, ehhh? (would I carry my 7-08 out west for a hunt, probably not, I'd grab the 7mmRM because it is there)


In order to push the 30 caliber bullets that are designed for big game you may have to get to a heavier bullet and more recoil that she will want. Just the physics of shooting heavier 30 cal big game bullets will probably rule out a 30, but that's up to you and her. If you really want to get a 30 Cal then look at the 308 and the 30-06. Those are your steps. The 308 will work great with 165 class bullets, but with a bit more recoil than the 284s shooting 140/150s. The 30-06 has successfully killed pretty much everything walking on this continent. But you get the recoil of pushing a 30 cal.

If she's already got a 270Win I wouldn't consider anything that class or smaller. She's already got a great hunting round in that class so there is no point in duplicating the performance from something else.

I don't have any experience with magnums other than my 7mmRM and we've pretty much ruled out the belted magnum class.

Another thing to think about when it comes to flinching is whether it is enhanced by muzzle blast using a break. Using something like a 284 or a 7-08 may minimize that.

 

[stool]

i still find it humorous....she is 115 lbs and there are GUYS recommending magnums,,and even the 7rsaum....

you guys have no clue............

 

[Todd DuBose]

Stool. If she reads you said she weighed 155lbs. She would have a Fit!! Ha!! 115lbs. soaking wet!!
XTR, With the 7mm Magnum, What is the lightest bullet you would go after Elk with? This might work if thr recoil of the big magnum is dropped by bullet weight...I am a fan of the 7mm mag. but have built 2 big 30 cals. and thats what I like. Will the 140 gr. or something lighter work on this type of setup giving less recoil and killing power? Say, like a Barnes Triple Shock? Shoulder shots on Whitetail Deer have Always worked here for me. Never had one move.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Some years back I bought a 700 Remington ADL in .30-06 for my wife. The first time out shooting it after I broke it in she shot 5 rounds of 165gr. Hornaday SP. I had loaded for her. She comes to me and said that this thing kicks tomuch. I sent it off to Billy Stevens and had a Harrel's muzzlebrake installed. The next time to the range she shot 50 rounds, groups were tight at 200 yards. She comes to me, and asked where are somemore rounds? I said they do make automatics. ;D

 

[dkhunt14]

i still find it humorous....she is 155 lbs and there are GUYS recommending magnums,,and even the 7rsaum....

you guys have no clue........... quote.
I ran the numbers and a 308 with 175 grain at 2600 has 20.1 ft. lbs. A 7RSAUM with 180 at 2700 only has 25 ft. lbs. This was with a 7lb. gun. Now I guarantee when shooting at a deer or elk she won't notice 5 ft. lbs. but the 7 will hit harder and shoot flatter. With a brake it would be a pleasure to shoot. Nothing in my opinion kicks worse then that 50 cal. she shot. They kick way harder than my 338 Lapua IMP.

 

[BradMT]

Muzzle brakes, Magnums, blah, blah.

I live in Elk Country and have taken bulls with the 270, 308, 30-06, 300 WSM, 338 WM, and have watched elk taken with a host of others from the 243 on up... anymore all I use here for everything is the 308 and a 165 of some sort. I killed a bull last week with the 308 and 165 NAB.

YOU DON'T NEED A MAGNUM FOR ANYTHING IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN WEST.

260, 7-08, 308... that's all you need to know. My preference is the 308.

Here's last year's bull with the 270 Win:

Last weeks with the 308Win:

 

[stool]

why would anyone buy /load and shoot a 7rsaum at 30'06 ballistics ??

and i clearly said 165 in the 308...not 175.

and yes i had a typo..she is 115 so recoil does matter.

i still find it humorous....she is 155 lbs and there are GUYS recommending magnums,,and even the 7rsaum....

you guys have no clue........... quote.
I ran the numbers and a 308 with 175 grain at 2600 has 20.1 ft. lbs. A 7RSAUM with 180 at 2700 only has 25 ft. lbs. This was with a 7lb. gun. Now I guarantee when shooting at a deer or elk she won't notice 5 ft. lbs. but the 7 will hit harder and shoot flatter. With a brake it would be a pleasure to shoot. Nothing in my opinion kicks worse then that 50 cal. she shot. They kick way harder than my 338 Lapua IMP.

 

[MrMajestic]

why would anyone buy /load and shoot a 7rsaum at 30'06 ballistics ??

Is this directed at the USAMU? ;D

 

[stool]

NO

why would anyone buy /load and shoot a 7rsaum at 30'06 ballistics ??

Is this directed at the USAMU? ;D

 

[5spd]

Another 7-08 vote from me w/the 140g bullets.

 

[kilmore]

I have killed many Elk with a .308 longest shot being 600 yards. Recoil might get her attention, but with a good shot on a Cow Elk, no follow up should be necessary. A full grown Bull (5x5 on up) can pack a lot of lead, and several shots have been needed to put them down and keep them down. A .30-06 is another proven caliber, but might be too much of a good thing for a small shooter, and a .300 win mag will clearly be a bad choice due to recoil.