What Cal, 600-1000yrd. Prarie dog gun ??
- Thread starter hutchcat
- Start date
I had a 6.5-284 Savage built to get into the 1,000yd. VHA club in 2005. However, I started shooting 1,000yd. BR and had such good luck with it that I gave up prairie dogs and just shoot 1,000yd. BR now . And,I am haveing my sixth Savage built by Fred Moreo for next years season.:thumb: Gerry Nordmann aka Badlands
You just want to shoot prarie dogs, not compete at these distances right? You know its pretty hard to beat the 6.5x284 for wind, but will you be able to see your hits and misses, spot your shots?
I have seen hotrod 22 calibers perform well with heavy bullets at 1000 yards in wind. I just think for this purpose something in 6mm is just in the middle. That's why I am building a multi-purpose varmint and competition rifle in 6mm Dasher. You need the accuracy in the first place to even hit an object that small.
I have seen hotrod 22 calibers perform well with heavy bullets at 1000 yards in wind. I just think for this purpose something in 6mm is just in the middle. That's why I am building a multi-purpose varmint and competition rifle in 6mm Dasher. You need the accuracy in the first place to even hit an object that small.
Since this is varminting, besides hitting the target, we also have to kill it. At extended distances, red mist simply doesn't happen and bullet expansion becomes pretty flacky on such light targets.
I love the 6.5 cal and do alot of LR shooting with it. The 140gr Amax is a great bullet but BC isn't as high as I would like. Most other match bullets will likely not expand and the 6.5 bore isn't that big a hole to poke through a critter.
So my suggestion to you is to start with a 7mm shooting 162gr Amax at 2900 to 3000fps. Yes, that would make it a 280AI, RSAUM, WSM or RM.
The Amax is the most fragile accurate bullet for LR shooting I am aware of. The larger bore really helps to cause internal disruption should little to no expansion occur. The 7mm AMAX is a very well priced bullet that is superbly accurate and with a very high BC.
The new 208gr AMax would be another excellent choice. The 300WM in a long barrel would be a superb platform.
Hitting pop cans at out to 1000yds is not that big a deal nowadays with just about any match cal. Killing that pop can just needs a bit more horsepower.
I love the 6.5 cal and do alot of LR shooting with it. The 140gr Amax is a great bullet but BC isn't as high as I would like. Most other match bullets will likely not expand and the 6.5 bore isn't that big a hole to poke through a critter.
So my suggestion to you is to start with a 7mm shooting 162gr Amax at 2900 to 3000fps. Yes, that would make it a 280AI, RSAUM, WSM or RM.
The Amax is the most fragile accurate bullet for LR shooting I am aware of. The larger bore really helps to cause internal disruption should little to no expansion occur. The 7mm AMAX is a very well priced bullet that is superbly accurate and with a very high BC.
The new 208gr AMax would be another excellent choice. The 300WM in a long barrel would be a superb platform.
Hitting pop cans at out to 1000yds is not that big a deal nowadays with just about any match cal. Killing that pop can just needs a bit more horsepower.
mysticplayer said:
How do you figure a 7mm,.284) is better than a 6.5mm,.264)? The 6.5 can be pushed as hard or harder than any factory chambered barrel rifle. Custom rifle...jump to a 6.5/06 and have all the speed you want.
Look at the BC and SD of the 140 & 142 grain over the counter 6.5 bullets...hands down winner over any of the 7mm bullets.
Hornady 6.5mm 142 AMax
Diameter Weight BC SD
.264" 140 gr. 0.550 0.287
Hornady 7mm 154 gr Interbond
Diameter Weight BC SD
.284" 154 gr. 0.525 0.273
Had to go to this heavy of bullet to get the BC and SD up high enough to compare to the 142 gr in the 6.5mm.
Hornady 7mm 162 gr AMax
Diameter Weight BC SD
.284" 162 gr. 0.625 0.287
From Hornady Ballistic Calculator,142 gr AMax at 3000 FPS)
746 ft lbs of force at 1000 yards and dropping 273 inches.
6.5 142 gr., .550 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range,yards) Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1000
Velocity,fps) 3000 2827 2661 2500 2345 2196 2052 1914 1782 1657 1539
Energy,ft.-lb.) 2838 2520 2232 1971 1734 1521 1328 1155 1001 865 746
Trajectory,100 yd. zero) -1.5 0.0 -2.8 -10.6 -23.8 -43.4 -70.2 -105.3 -149.9 -205.5 -273.8
Come Up in MOA -1.5 0.0 1.4 3.4 5.7 8.3 11.2 14.4 17.9 21.8 26.1
7mm 162 gr AMax
7.5 162 gr., .625 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range,yards) Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1000
Velocity,fps) 3000 2847 2700 2557 2419 2285 2155 2030 1909 1792 1681
Energy,ft.-lb.) 3237 2916 2622 2352 2105 1878 1671 1482 1310 1155 1016
Trajectory,100 yd. zero) -1.5 0.0 -2.8 -10.3 -23.1 -41.8 -67.3 -100.2 -141.5 -192.5 -254.2
Come Up in MOA -1.5 0.0 1.3 3.3 5.5 8.0 10.7 13.7 16.9 20.4 24.3
7mm 154 gr Interbond
7.5 154 gr., .525 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range,yards) Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1000
Velocity,fps) 3000 2819 2645 2478 2317 2161 2012 1869 1733 1605 1486
Energy,ft.-lb.) 3077 2717 2392 2099 1835 1597 1384 1195 1027 881 755
Trajectory,100 yd. zero) -1.5 0.0 -2.9 -10.7 -24.1 -44.1 -71.5 -107.5 -153.5 -211.1 -282.3
Come Up in MOA -1.5 0.0 1.4 3.4 5.8 8.4 11.4 14.7 18.3 22.4 27.0
big work putting all that data down but review your own data and the differences are there.
As you will see in my post, I only mentioned the 162gr Amax for suitable 7mm bullets. BC is signicantly higher then the 140gr AMax. That matters as how much do you need to be off in wind drift doping to miss a pop can? Hit a small change and schwing, there goes the 6.5. The 7mm is not perfect but will be more forgiving at distance.
At 1000yds, you are trying to hit pop cans. That feat matches the best group size in LR BR competitions. As far as I have seen, PD's tend to live in areas that have lots of wind and mirage. Every little bit helps.
There is no hunting bullet and many match bullets that will not expand reliably at these impact velocities,under 1600fps) and such light targets. So essentially, most bullets become FMJ's on a PD. At which point, KE doesn't mean alot as the amount transfered to the critter is peanuts.
The impact velocity of the 7mm Amax is about 150fps FASTER. That will help with a smidge more expansion but more importantly, more frontal area AND more mass.
Call it Taylor knock down factor, momentum, whatever.
Until you start hitting objects at distance, you will not believe these differences matter. They do.
The effect on water filled pop bottles between a 6.5 140gr and a 208gr 30 cal is quite impressive. Neither is doing the red mist thing but there is no denying the 30cal makes a bigger splat.
If you could hit them, a superb LR thumper is a 500ish gr 45cal lead bullet arriving at 800fps,45-70 LR BCPR cartridge). Mighty impressive craters but 'hail maries' becomes pretty tiring after a few rds.
I do alot of LR plinking and I can say from watching the impacts, BIG BULLETS make bigger splats. Will a 6.5 work, sure but bigger will work better.
Ultimately, go shoot whatever you feel will work. If you can compare side by side larger cals with heavier bullets, that will be a most enlightening experience.
Computer generated data doesn't always explain what happens when lead meets meat.
Jerry
As you will see in my post, I only mentioned the 162gr Amax for suitable 7mm bullets. BC is signicantly higher then the 140gr AMax. That matters as how much do you need to be off in wind drift doping to miss a pop can? Hit a small change and schwing, there goes the 6.5. The 7mm is not perfect but will be more forgiving at distance.
At 1000yds, you are trying to hit pop cans. That feat matches the best group size in LR BR competitions. As far as I have seen, PD's tend to live in areas that have lots of wind and mirage. Every little bit helps.
There is no hunting bullet and many match bullets that will not expand reliably at these impact velocities,under 1600fps) and such light targets. So essentially, most bullets become FMJ's on a PD. At which point, KE doesn't mean alot as the amount transfered to the critter is peanuts.
The impact velocity of the 7mm Amax is about 150fps FASTER. That will help with a smidge more expansion but more importantly, more frontal area AND more mass.
Call it Taylor knock down factor, momentum, whatever.
Until you start hitting objects at distance, you will not believe these differences matter. They do.
The effect on water filled pop bottles between a 6.5 140gr and a 208gr 30 cal is quite impressive. Neither is doing the red mist thing but there is no denying the 30cal makes a bigger splat.
If you could hit them, a superb LR thumper is a 500ish gr 45cal lead bullet arriving at 800fps,45-70 LR BCPR cartridge). Mighty impressive craters but 'hail maries' becomes pretty tiring after a few rds.
I do alot of LR plinking and I can say from watching the impacts, BIG BULLETS make bigger splats. Will a 6.5 work, sure but bigger will work better.
Ultimately, go shoot whatever you feel will work. If you can compare side by side larger cals with heavier bullets, that will be a most enlightening experience.
Computer generated data doesn't always explain what happens when lead meets meat.
Jerry
Jerry - I agree about generated data, it is just that...generated.
Why is the 6.5 variants used to such great extent in the BR matches then?
Sorry, I do not agree with your blanket statement of the 7mm being vastly superior. As the data, albeit computer generated, shows, comparing same weight bullets, clearly shows which will fly better.
The long pencil of the 6.5 would be the winnner.
The 6.5 when pushed harder shines a little better. I picked the 3000 fps for both cartridges.
If your statement were true, then all of the BR people would be shooting 275 gr AMax out of 30" tube 30/338 caliber rifles.
Why is the 6.5 variants used to such great extent in the BR matches then?
Sorry, I do not agree with your blanket statement of the 7mm being vastly superior. As the data, albeit computer generated, shows, comparing same weight bullets, clearly shows which will fly better.
The long pencil of the 6.5 would be the winnner.
The 6.5 when pushed harder shines a little better. I picked the 3000 fps for both cartridges.
If your statement were true, then all of the BR people would be shooting 275 gr AMax out of 30" tube 30/338 caliber rifles.
As a matter of fact, the unlimited BR guys shoot very heavy for cal 30's and 338's as a rule because of the better ballistics way out there.
With rifles weighing in at 60 to 100lbs, what is recoil?
All match shooting is a compromise with rifle, task and range requirements.
SR BR is dominated by the 6PPC. For that task and the rules on how the rifle can be set up, it has evolved to be the best at that game.
Change the rules, and a new best cal will emerge...maybe.
For F class Open, there is a pretty good fight for supremacy between the fast 6mm's, mid 6.5's and 7's. All have their plus and minuses so there is no clear winning combo yet.
For LR hunting/varminting, the only rule is killing the target effectively once it has been hit. As distances increase, the amount of delivered horsepower needs to also go up. We don't mean KE either as previously discussed.
At 1000yds, all these big boomers become no more then magnum handguns. Which do you think will do more work - a 357mag or a 454 Casull? When things slow down, bore and bullet mass really make a difference.
Ballistically, the larger and heavier the match bullet, the better. We have cases large enough to propel anything to the speeds we want. Higher BC means more retained velocity,better bullet expansion), reduced wind drift,and more energy to put animals down.
Although the PD is the size of a pop can, the actual vital area is the size of a golf ball. Gut shots still lead to lingering and slow deaths unless you poke a very big hole in it.
At short range, high velocity coupled with fragile bullets lead to violent 'explosions' - the infamous red mist. Within these limits, really doesn't matter where the bullet arrives. The PD is vaporised.
Way the heck out there, you will never get that level of body disruption so now you have to hit like a deer hunter. Pretty hard to hit a pop can at 1000yds let alone the "K" or the "E" on demand. If you could, that would make you the BEST shooter in the world.
I err on the side of caution and assume my bullet will not expand so I want to hit that animal with the largest cal that makes sense. The bigger the cal, the better.
If you look up the Varmint Hunters Assoc, there is a group of shooters going for extremely long shots at PD's. I think the farthest club is 2500yds. Have a look at what they use. I really don't think you are going to see many 'small' bores.
Jerry
With rifles weighing in at 60 to 100lbs, what is recoil?
All match shooting is a compromise with rifle, task and range requirements.
SR BR is dominated by the 6PPC. For that task and the rules on how the rifle can be set up, it has evolved to be the best at that game.
Change the rules, and a new best cal will emerge...maybe.
For F class Open, there is a pretty good fight for supremacy between the fast 6mm's, mid 6.5's and 7's. All have their plus and minuses so there is no clear winning combo yet.
For LR hunting/varminting, the only rule is killing the target effectively once it has been hit. As distances increase, the amount of delivered horsepower needs to also go up. We don't mean KE either as previously discussed.
At 1000yds, all these big boomers become no more then magnum handguns. Which do you think will do more work - a 357mag or a 454 Casull? When things slow down, bore and bullet mass really make a difference.
Ballistically, the larger and heavier the match bullet, the better. We have cases large enough to propel anything to the speeds we want. Higher BC means more retained velocity,better bullet expansion), reduced wind drift,and more energy to put animals down.
Although the PD is the size of a pop can, the actual vital area is the size of a golf ball. Gut shots still lead to lingering and slow deaths unless you poke a very big hole in it.
At short range, high velocity coupled with fragile bullets lead to violent 'explosions' - the infamous red mist. Within these limits, really doesn't matter where the bullet arrives. The PD is vaporised.
Way the heck out there, you will never get that level of body disruption so now you have to hit like a deer hunter. Pretty hard to hit a pop can at 1000yds let alone the "K" or the "E" on demand. If you could, that would make you the BEST shooter in the world.
I err on the side of caution and assume my bullet will not expand so I want to hit that animal with the largest cal that makes sense. The bigger the cal, the better.
If you look up the Varmint Hunters Assoc, there is a group of shooters going for extremely long shots at PD's. I think the farthest club is 2500yds. Have a look at what they use. I really don't think you are going to see many 'small' bores.
Jerry
Mysticplayer - you're absolutely correct on all counts.
22-vs-243-vs-264-vs-284-vs-308-vs ...... 50BMG is all about tradeoffs and compromise. All shooters are confronted with a basic decision: "How much recoil am I willing to absorb to achieve my ballistic goal?" With each increase in bore size a measurable BC advantage is available and a measurable increase in recoil is also part of the deal. Many, many shooters find a good balance of performance and recoil with the .264" bore and they rightfully have extreme faith in that bullet diameter. But rest assured that if those same shooters could step up to a larger diameter bullet and gain the BC advantage but somehow not exceed their personal recoil threshold, they'd switch in a heartbeat. Everything's a compromise.
As much as I have a soft spot for the 6.5mm, there's simply no way that a bullet with a lower BC will magically out-perform a bullet with a higher BC when both are launched at equal velocities. Wish it were otherwise, but mathematics and physics follow strict rules.
Bottom line? Don't shoot for "pinks" against a 50 BMG,unless you're shooting something even larger).
Tom
22-vs-243-vs-264-vs-284-vs-308-vs ...... 50BMG is all about tradeoffs and compromise. All shooters are confronted with a basic decision: "How much recoil am I willing to absorb to achieve my ballistic goal?" With each increase in bore size a measurable BC advantage is available and a measurable increase in recoil is also part of the deal. Many, many shooters find a good balance of performance and recoil with the .264" bore and they rightfully have extreme faith in that bullet diameter. But rest assured that if those same shooters could step up to a larger diameter bullet and gain the BC advantage but somehow not exceed their personal recoil threshold, they'd switch in a heartbeat. Everything's a compromise.
As much as I have a soft spot for the 6.5mm, there's simply no way that a bullet with a lower BC will magically out-perform a bullet with a higher BC when both are launched at equal velocities. Wish it were otherwise, but mathematics and physics follow strict rules.
Bottom line? Don't shoot for "pinks" against a 50 BMG,unless you're shooting something even larger).
Tom
Actual feild testing in Prarie Dog towns south of my farm:
6.5mm your spotter will see your impact at that distance. 7mm You will also see your impact with 7mm and 7.62mm. The thing about P Rats is they mow down the range grass when its so dry out that no matter what your shooting you will see something through the spotting scope. Thats why Ranchers want them gone! The Prarie Dog makes a big mound of dirt around his hole. That mound of soil,mostly Pryoclastic clay in my area) is ussually dry as a popcorn fart along with the area around it.
Kill Zone on a Prarie Rat????? Please Ive heard it all now. You may get laughed off the reservation or private land in my neck of the woods.
Just as a side note,, I dont care what others are using) Long shots on Rats we use 7 rem Mag, 162 AMax) 6.5X284 and once and a awhile the 243 Ackley. 300 WM is also not out of the question. Its a run what you brung type of deal.
Its the most fun you can have with your pants on thats for sure.
RT
6.5mm your spotter will see your impact at that distance. 7mm You will also see your impact with 7mm and 7.62mm. The thing about P Rats is they mow down the range grass when its so dry out that no matter what your shooting you will see something through the spotting scope. Thats why Ranchers want them gone! The Prarie Dog makes a big mound of dirt around his hole. That mound of soil,mostly Pryoclastic clay in my area) is ussually dry as a popcorn fart along with the area around it.
Kill Zone on a Prarie Rat????? Please Ive heard it all now. You may get laughed off the reservation or private land in my neck of the woods.
Just as a side note,, I dont care what others are using) Long shots on Rats we use 7 rem Mag, 162 AMax) 6.5X284 and once and a awhile the 243 Ackley. 300 WM is also not out of the question. Its a run what you brung type of deal.
Its the most fun you can have with your pants on thats for sure.
RT
One thing to consider, there are tons of those little field rats running around thats wy they call them Praire Dog towns and so little ammo. Do not run yourself so far up into the caliber stratospher cause it will still come down to dollars being spent and the big boys aren't cheap. I shoot a Rem 260 and also have a 300 WinMag, I am not willing to shoot that winmag as much as the 260 and besides who in thier right mind wants to go out and shoot a days worth of 7mm or 300 winmags. Try it and I am sure those dogs will come out the winners that day. If not you and your shoulders are more man than I. Shoot for fun not for pain.
It all come down to BC & SD and if all the great shooters in the F class 1000yd could handle the recoil of the .30 & .338 they would be using them I can tell you that for sure.They would be using .30 240 gr and .338 300 gr bullets for the high BC & SD, less drop and less wind drift.They would have less trouble doping the wind and get more X's.I use a .338 RUM on P-dogs and any one that has hunted them out west know you will have wind.Yes if they let shooter in open F class use brakes then you would see a big differences in what they shoot.I know all about the noise and a simple fix for that would to put up low plywood wall between the shooter to stop noise and debree from bothering each shooter.
Hutchcat. I am sorry I feel you probly didn't really get an ansewr here you wanted. For the crazy people why stop with the Remington Ultras. If you are going to totaly waste your trip and experience use the Lazerroni calibers. You don't get any faster than them.
Isn't the whole fun of shooting p-dogs is getting to see them explode inot a red cloud or to do flips if this is what you call fun well you sure as hell ain't going to get to see any of that with the Remington Ultras or any of the other large caliber bullets you all are talking about. No way can you stay on target with all that recoil you may as well be shooting paper.
Stay with your 6.5 and lower for P-dogs. If larger bullets are your favor use them on coyotes.
Isn't the whole fun of shooting p-dogs is getting to see them explode inot a red cloud or to do flips if this is what you call fun well you sure as hell ain't going to get to see any of that with the Remington Ultras or any of the other large caliber bullets you all are talking about. No way can you stay on target with all that recoil you may as well be shooting paper.
Stay with your 6.5 and lower for P-dogs. If larger bullets are your favor use them on coyotes.
Hutchcat
You asked about the LONG Range Prarie dog calibre's. Mr Silverback isnt to hip on shooting the big bullets at long range but when we get to a town of Rats this is how it unfold just about every time. For the first 1/2 hour there is fair amount of shooting with the 10/22 from the close stupid ones to the ones at 50 yards or so., though that is getting harder to find these days) Then the 223 gets the go ahead once the benches are set or the bypod is snaped on. most of my shooting is with this. then comes out 22-250 or a 6mm of some sort. witch alternates back and forth with the 223. IF the town has the type of layout that alows a 700 yard or longer shot we then go to the big guns. Ill have to admit it is very hard to get on target again after 7mm is ignited with out a good muzzle break to see anything. Anything inside 700 yards is fair game to the 6mm anyway. Your spotter will get a kick out of it though. Sometimes I like spotting just as much as shooting
I guess what im saying is I NEVER head to a town with only ONE gun. This is a atleast a 3 gun sitiation in my opinion to maximize the funfactor. Your not shooting these big guns all day long. Its when the closer ones get skiddish and we had been there a fair amount of time that we lean on the big guns at the longer ranges.
Take a look at the straight 243 loaded with a 115grain Berger going 3050fps. It will be right beside the 142 grain 6.5X284 going 2950. so there certianly are alternatives to the big bullets. You ussually get a couple of shots or more at that long range anyway. Boy you got a lot of answers on this one but what it comes down to is what you feel comfortable with, its obvoius Mr Silverback doesnt care to shoot a big loed &,* gun yet Mr Varmint feels perfectly comfortable with it. There is alot of diversity here you will have to find what suits you best. Just dont heat up those barrels to hot. Good Luck And i wish you a target rich environment.
RT
You asked about the LONG Range Prarie dog calibre's. Mr Silverback isnt to hip on shooting the big bullets at long range but when we get to a town of Rats this is how it unfold just about every time. For the first 1/2 hour there is fair amount of shooting with the 10/22 from the close stupid ones to the ones at 50 yards or so., though that is getting harder to find these days) Then the 223 gets the go ahead once the benches are set or the bypod is snaped on. most of my shooting is with this. then comes out 22-250 or a 6mm of some sort. witch alternates back and forth with the 223. IF the town has the type of layout that alows a 700 yard or longer shot we then go to the big guns. Ill have to admit it is very hard to get on target again after 7mm is ignited with out a good muzzle break to see anything. Anything inside 700 yards is fair game to the 6mm anyway. Your spotter will get a kick out of it though. Sometimes I like spotting just as much as shooting
I guess what im saying is I NEVER head to a town with only ONE gun. This is a atleast a 3 gun sitiation in my opinion to maximize the funfactor. Your not shooting these big guns all day long. Its when the closer ones get skiddish and we had been there a fair amount of time that we lean on the big guns at the longer ranges.
Take a look at the straight 243 loaded with a 115grain Berger going 3050fps. It will be right beside the 142 grain 6.5X284 going 2950. so there certianly are alternatives to the big bullets. You ussually get a couple of shots or more at that long range anyway. Boy you got a lot of answers on this one but what it comes down to is what you feel comfortable with, its obvoius Mr Silverback doesnt care to shoot a big loed &,* gun yet Mr Varmint feels perfectly comfortable with it. There is alot of diversity here you will have to find what suits you best. Just dont heat up those barrels to hot. Good Luck And i wish you a target rich environment.
RT
Ah, yes, the 1000 yard club. My deceased partner made it with a 308 he built up strictly for that purpose. When he made it he sold the gun.
Another friend did it with a .243 Ackly, custom build.
It took him 38 shots at the same priairie dog. but he did it.
If you like to play with that it's fine. I haven't got that far yet, But this year a Savage 22-250 LRPV goes along with the 223's and the 243 standard job. 500 should be no sweat, but 1000 is not likely.,lightning could strike, though).
I personally like to see bodies and innards flying through the air. Maxkill is the order of the day.
HM
Another friend did it with a .243 Ackly, custom build.
It took him 38 shots at the same priairie dog. but he did it.
If you like to play with that it's fine. I haven't got that far yet, But this year a Savage 22-250 LRPV goes along with the 223's and the 243 standard job. 500 should be no sweat, but 1000 is not likely.,lightning could strike, though).
I personally like to see bodies and innards flying through the air. Maxkill is the order of the day.
HM
Halfmile, I, Like you love to see guts flying, so I had a special rifle built just for that purpose. I am having a 300 "Varminter" built by Richard Franklin. The 300 Varminter is based off the 300 WSM cartridge and a Bartlien 30" 1-15 twist barrel.
The 300 Varminter shoots the 125grn Ballistic Tip at 4000+fps. The red mist factor is awesome even at the longer ranges. Go to Richards Custom Rifles web site to see what I am having built.
I am having a 30-338 Lupa Improved built for shots from 800 to 1500 yards. I will be using the 208grn A-Max for varminting. Anyhow, I am looking forward to going Pdoggin this year. I will be using two rifles a 223 and the 300 Varminter, it should be real fun.
VH
The 300 Varminter shoots the 125grn Ballistic Tip at 4000+fps. The red mist factor is awesome even at the longer ranges. Go to Richards Custom Rifles web site to see what I am having built.
I am having a 30-338 Lupa Improved built for shots from 800 to 1500 yards. I will be using the 208grn A-Max for varminting. Anyhow, I am looking forward to going Pdoggin this year. I will be using two rifles a 223 and the 300 Varminter, it should be real fun.
VH
I dont have problems watching hits on rocks out to 500yds with my 7mmRSAUM off a b.p.Thats about as far as Ive got to shoot so far. I plan to reach out and touch a few patch poodles that pissed me off, just out of reach with my 6br and around a 15mh cross wind,+500yrds)I think that 7mm will be the ticket. IMO it`s the best tweener for LONG range shootin on pd`s. Although I do plan to build a 338-300RUM for the ones I cant touch with my 7...
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