What are these Rings?? --Update**

[Rook 6]

thanks

I bent the other end of the wire rod into a triangle. When you position the wire on your fingertips it’s amazing how sensitive the feels is. You can feel the slightest indentation/starting of the separation ring.

 

[Rook 6]

i did the bent paper clip, borescoped the cases — ive got to look at the bore some more but didnt see anything the first time. i did just cut this chamber so that seems like a likely culprit. i also fired these cases today with no ill effects but im thinking about throwing them inthe scrap bucket. thanks

If you shoot a different lot of brass with the same result, maybe try a chamber or perhaps even a die casting with Cerrosafe? Might show something?

 

[joshb]

I love a good mystery!

 

[josebd]

A few years ago I resized some .223 brass,left them there on my work bench,a few hours later the rings appeared?

 

[josebd]

I wouldn’t worry about,as long as you aren’t bumping the shoulder back a lot after resizing

 

[hoz53]

A few years ago I resized some .223 brass,left them there on my work bench,a few hours later the rings appeared?

I have magic stuff happen in my shop like that to!! Keeps me thinkin

 

[hoz53]

I bent the other end of the wire rod into a triangle. When you position the wire on your fingertips it’s amazing how sensitive the feels is. You can feel the slightest indentation/starting of the separation ring.

thats a good tip - i ground the side out of one of these and cant see any line on the inside. (see pic) ill use that technique in the future —thanks

 

[hoz53]

If you shoot a different lot of brass with the same result, maybe try a chamber or perhaps even a die casting with Cerrosafe? Might show something?

i have some and id like to see what it looks like — ill try it — thanks

 

[hoz53]

Ya man it's just not worth it.... I have thrown away my share of brass because it made me wonder about one thing or another.... One time I tossed 200 I had done the work on but screwed up.... I would rather loose the brass than have something happen....

thats the way with me- not like they are lapua or petersen ect- just some old/new winchester.

 

[hoz53]

Should not be a separation issue in a bolt action.

What cartridge & gun?

New brass can be damaged on the first firing. Mostly happens with military surplus rifles with excessive head space.

243 Win in a Rem 700 action with a barrel I did the machining on and put on it. I am pretty picky about the headspace when i do them and i bet this one is .001 over go but ill check it with the gages today. i never had incipient rings from a bolt action either except belted magnums when i was younger. thanks

 

[hoz53]

I had a similar thing in a brand new chamber. The gunsmith didnt clear the chips from the reamer enough and dragged chips which embedded and made grooves in the chamber wall which left marks like this. Found it with a borescope. I polished them enough to stopped the marks but problem is still in there. With yours, are they coming out of the chamber that way or the sizing die?

i know that happens -scoring the chamber like that— it hasnt happened to me yet- Im fanatical about keeping the chips cleared but it could be my first. Good thing i didnt give much for this barrel. i will be checking more on this and report back. thanks

 

[josebd]

 

[josebd]

Same question I had last year 308 lapua brass

 

[Thud]

I’m going to refill my popcorn

 

[Webster]

These look like incipient rings but they are 1/2” from the body/shoulder junction. Chamber isnt to old so mabie something in there since they are on about all cases. Couldnt find it with borescope. i tried checking with a little hook in the case and also looked with borescope and didnt see anything inside the brass. Thanks

PS— oh ill look in my dies tonite to.

Update ::last two pics are one of these i just took the grinder to-- ring is at black marks--i dont see anything inside

Don't understand the difficulty. You start with cases without the ring. After every step of reloading, taking out of storage boxes and shooting examine for the first occurance of the ring. Sounds simple to me.

 

[hoz53]

I love a good mystery!

I to like a good Mystery-- Another one is where did the stock on this gun come fromlol

View attachment 1302882

thanks jose— i now believe the problem is in the chamber

 

[Thud]

Your only allowed 1 mystery a week.

 

[joshb]

I to like a good Mystery-- Another one is where did the stock on this gun come fromlolView attachment 1302977

thanks jose— i now believe the problem is in the chamber

Dang that thing is ugly!!! Who could have made such an abomination?

 

[hoz53]

These were f-formed properly.

The issue was brass quality, despite the brass being new. A switch to another brand of brass, (using the same f-forming process) took care of the issue. Interestingly, my good pal Randy Robinett was also experiencing this exact issue at the same time with this same brass. We might have f-formed a few over the years....

Not sayin' it's absolutely the brass, though....just that you have to look at everything one step at a time. A quick peek with the bore scope will answer the question if it's the chamber. Of note are similar lines lower down on the cases.

I'd be interested to know the base-datum dimension on his new brass and the same after being fired a time or two, as well as the exact f-forming proceedure.

Good shootin'. -Al

Hi Al—- I have just taken some measurements. I use a sinclair bump gage with the inserts. One thing i learned is to take measurements off headspace gages and have them make sense with measurements off the brass i had to use the bigger insert (same angle)
At least in this case with these gages. Here are measurements
New Brass. 1.439
just Fired Brass. 1.443
GO gage. 1.440
NoGo gage. 1.443
Of coarse these are relative measurements not what actual headspace would be.
These look okay to me. i also checked the gun with the HS gages and stripped bolt. It closed on Go but not on NoGo like it should have. I borescoped and marked the approximate location of the ring on borescope so i could tell if something was in that area. I saw a groove in there that goes part way around the chamber so i think this is the culprit. Good thing this was a cheap used barrel. No loss on it except my time and i learned some things. I will pull this off soon and mabie mill part of the barrel away so i can see the groove. thanks for your help

Clymer HS gages
cly115. 1.630 go
cly515. 1.634 nogo

 

[hoz53]

Dang that thing is ugly!!! Who could have made such an abomination?

I know!!! Looks like its getting a new barrel and mabie new cartridge to purdy it up a little!!!
Any advice on that??