What are these Rings?? --Update**

[hoz53]

I’ve had same marks and it was from ammo box. Easy to check

not the box ill keep looking thanks

 

[hoz53]

Ammo box

not the box jessi. i was hoping— ill keep looking thanks

 

[hoz53]

These 223 had a head clearance of .014" They came apart on firing & when fl sizing.
No harm done.

now this is wat im concerned about although these are 243 and i believe i only bumped them .003. i should double check that. thanks

 

[hoz53]

Don't be too sure about that.......

yes definately what i want to avoid. these were unfired brass until a few weeks ago but probably 15 years old. there is only mabie 3 or 4 firings on them. i know they could have gotten brittle just setting on the shelf that length of time and should have annealed them but didnt. thanks

 

[hoz53]

This

i checked and doesnt seem like the box did it. thanks

 

[hoz53]

My Giraud annealing machine leaves marks exactly like that as it rolls the cases during the annealing process. However, you want to be very sure the rings are nothing more than a cosmetic mark on the exterior. If it is not merely a slight surface mark on the outside, something unpleasant might be impending (i.e. case-head separation.

i dont have a giraud and didnt anneal these either so thats not it but good to know. youre right i am trying to figure out what the rings are as i dont want a separation. thanks

 

[hoz53]

If not your ammo box, do you use a Giraud trimmer? Looks to be about the right distance from shoulder???

not the ammo box, i dont have a giraud and i borescoped my dies tonite so i dont think its that. ill keep looking. thanks

 

[hoz53]

Die stratches go up and down.
Depending on the length of your bullet and if the point is up or down the line rubbed a case guard is usually closer to the base of the case.
Look at a new case, than fire it. That will tell you what you need to know.

Hal

this is what im gonna do- fire a few new cases and see what they look like. thanks

 

[hoz53]

I can tell you that I definitely would at least check them with the bent paper clip before I did anything with them... Plus I would check the chamber.... Never mess around with stuff if you are not 100% sure....

i did the bent paper clip, borescoped the cases — ive got to look at the bore some more but didnt see anything the first time. i did just cut this chamber so that seems like a likely culprit. i also fired these cases today with no ill effects but im thinking about throwing them inthe scrap bucket. thanks

 

[hoz53]

I agree it could be die or ammo box, one of those two possibilities. Don’t have a Giraud annealer so can’t comment. Good on you using a hook to scrape along the inside of the case. I use a piece of piano wire bent 90 degrees to a sharpened point to check cases for indications of case separation. Best old school trick in the book. Good luck determining root cause!

thanks

 

[hoz53]

I had some 6BR cases get rings like that and it ended up being from the rifles chamber. I had to buy a special chamber hone to fix the chamber to stop it from happening.

this could be as i just cut this chamber. i didnt see anything on first look but ill look again. if thats it in this case ill cut the chamber off and throw the barrel in the ar-15 bin.

 

[hoz53]

I had marks such as those and they were from, rolling my rounds on the V-blocks on my RCBS case master. To be sure maybe section one case and make sure.

i dont think ive rolled all these on anything like that. i definately will section one though and check it out— thanks

 

[hoz53]

I'd check the chamber, while you have the borescope out.

i gotta do that again. thanks

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Polish it off with steel wool and see what part of the process they appear. I suspect chamber

 

[hoz53]

Polish it off with steel wool and see what part of the process they appear. I suspect chamber

good idea - i thought id mabie use some new cases but why waste those. i think youre right. thanks

 

[Rsadams]

i did the bent paper clip, borescoped the cases — ive got to look at the bore some more but didnt see anything the first time. i did just cut this chamber so that seems like a likely culprit. i also fired these cases today with no ill effects but im thinking about throwing them inthe scrap bucket. thanks

Ya man it's just not worth it.... I have thrown away my share of brass because it made me wonder about one thing or another.... One time I tossed 200 I had done the work on but screwed up.... I would rather loose the brass than have something happen....

 

[SeabeeKen]

Don't be too sure about that.......

Separations at that point are from improper fire forming. Dont ask how I know. Had that on my 257ai. New brass didn't jam at the neck shoulder when forming and stretched at that point. One cracked on forming and 2 others cracked on next firing.

 

[SeabeeKen]

good idea - i thought id mabie use some new cases but why waste those. i think youre right. thanks

I had a similar thing in a brand new chamber. The gunsmith didnt clear the chips from the reamer enough and dragged chips which embedded and made grooves in the chamber wall which left marks like this. Found it with a borescope. I polished them enough to stopped the marks but problem is still in there. With yours, are they coming out of the chamber that way or the sizing die?

 

[243winxb]

i believe i only bumped them .003.

Should not be a separation issue in a bolt action.

What cartridge & gun?

New brass can be damaged on the first firing. Mostly happens with military surplus rifles with excessive head space.

 

[AlNyhus]

Separations at that point are from improper fire forming. Dont ask how I know. Had that on my 257ai. New brass didn't jam at the neck shoulder when forming and stretched at that point. One cracked on forming and 2 others cracked on next firing.

These were f-formed properly.

The issue was brass quality, despite the brass being new. A switch to another brand of brass, (using the same f-forming process) took care of the issue. Interestingly, my good pal Randy Robinett was also experiencing this exact issue at the same time with this same brass. We might have f-formed a few over the years....

Not sayin' it's absolutely the brass, though....just that you have to look at everything one step at a time. A quick peek with the bore scope will answer the question if it's the chamber. Of note are similar lines lower down on the cases.

I'd be interested to know the base-datum dimension on his new brass and the same after being fired a time or two, as well as the exact f-forming proceedure.

Good shootin'. -Al