Weird trigger delay? ***UPDATED***

[Milo 2.0]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

There's one thing you can do, take primed, no powdered cases out to your garage and fire some, no ear plugs and listen to what happens. Immediate fire? Listen for sound difference. Hold the gun away from you and watch the firing pin move, is it hanging?

Usually when primers are bad, rare, they just don't go off. And really, the Russian primers have had a good rep.

 

[ebb]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

When I first read this I thought about a gun I had built that had a firing pin in a PGT bolt that never had the pin protrusion set. It hang fired often and ruined a new barrel. Mr. Robbinette mentioned this on the first page, I know nothing of trigger hangers but would ask you to check the firing pin soon. This problem sounds the same as my gun in every way.

 

[Milo 2.0]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

When I first read this I thought about a gun I had built that had a firing pin in a PGT bolt that never had the pin protrusion set. It hang fired often and ruined a new barrel. Mr. Robbinette mentioned this on the first page, I know nothing of trigger hangers but would ask you to check the firing pin soon. This problem sounds the same as my gun in every way.

If I may ask, how could hangfires ruin a barrel?

 

[DeltaBravo]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

Is the trigger pinned to the action like a Rem 700? If it is, then the pins may have been driven in too far, pressing the side plates together and creating excess friction. I had this happen on my Shilen DGV and had either slow firing pin release - sorta like yours - or no firing pin release. After I tapped the pins out a very minor amount, everything went back to norma. I don't have any experience with the AICS, but a quick search showed it was for Rem 700 actions.

May not be of any help, but any advice I give is worth what you pay for it! :

Dennis

 

[thefitter]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

Now that you mention it's a 338 LM, if it's a hangfire, I'll bet it's not enough powder in the case. You never mentioned what powder you're using.

Like I said before, you need to eliminate the hangup first, get it out of the equation, and you don't want that anyway.
If the smith couldn't fix it the first time, he may not be able to on a return.

I need to see if I kept notes on these rounds. I just loaded up some extra powder and bullets I had to fire form the cases. It was Norma MRP and some Lapua 250's.

I'm pretty sure the load would be at least above 90% full.

 

[TonyR]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

So this is pretty weird. Brand new build. It's a new Bat Action with a new Jewell trigger model Hunter Varmint Rifle w/no options, one pound pull.

There is this bizzare half second delay when you pull the trigger until it strikes the round!!!???

Now it gets weirder... I can not seem to feel it when I pull the trigger with NO round in the chamber.

I have this same trigger on another rifle and it does NOT do this?

Thanks

I had this happen in a match. It turned out to be some cleaning solution in the trigger. I flush my triggers with lighter fluid every time I clean the gun but it didn't touch this blob of stuff. I had to dismantle and clean the trigger to solve the problem.

 

[thefitter]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

Is the trigger pinned to the action like a Rem 700? If it is, then the pins may have been driven in too far, pressing the side plates together and creating excess friction. I had this happen on my Shilen DGV and had either slow firing pin release - sorta like yours - or no firing pin release. After I tapped the pins out a very minor amount, everything went back to norma. I don't have any experience with the AICS, but a quick search showed it was for Rem 700 actions.

May not be of any help, but any advice I give is worth what you pay for it! :

Dennis

Yes. This BAT is an exact REM 700 clone. Did not know this was possible. I always just center the pins.

 

[dkhunt14]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

I have 3 Bat Model M's and can't shoot CCI primers in them. I get Hangfires and misfires. Federals work great and never had a problem. I also have an SB BAT that I can shoot CCI BR4's in with no problem.

 

[ebb]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

Milo-2 I was told by the maker of the ruined barrel that a hang fire produces more pressure, some times a lot more pressure. The gun had about 300 rounds through it and had throat erosion about 5 inches down the barrel as seen in the bore scope. All loads were well below the published max. I could sit at the bench and see the firing pin fall when the trigger was pulled. Try that with any gun with a fast lock time, you wont see the pin move as it is recoiling and coming at you.

 

[M-61]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

When I first read this I thought about a gun I had built that had a firing pin in a PGT bolt that never had the pin protrusion set. It hang fired often and ruined a new barrel. Mr. Robbinette mentioned this on the first page, I know nothing of trigger hangers but would ask you to check the firing pin soon. This problem sounds the same as my gun in every way.

From Robinette:

Also, check the firing-pin protrusion - on several BAT actions, we have found protrusion, at 0.46-.048", to be less than the specified 0.052-0.55". On my BAT HBR rifle, with Wolf primers, this proved to be a deal-wrecker! On several recent builds,pals of mine have experienced the same thing - too little protrusion, thus, inconsistent ignition, including hang-fires. RG


I may be missing what was said by "Robbinette" but I read him saying it was a 'deal-wrecker" not a barrel ruiner. I had assumed the 'deal' went poorly not the barrel. Do I have it wrong?

 

[ebb]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

I don't know what you are asking or implying. I am giving you my experience and it is real. If you don't believe me by all means shoot all you want its your gun. Powders burn at different rates and if you use the wrong powder in a gun, it could blow up. If I can watch the firing pin fall on a Magnum action Remington I have altered the burn rate in another way. The bolt was sent to Greg Tannel and had the firing pin bushed and he told me the pin was off a lot and he cut the pin to make it come out of the bolt face further. It has a new barrel and the bolt fixed and shoots bug holes now. I don't know if this is whats wrong with the OPs gun but it is what was wrong with mine.

 

[Old Navy]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

I have 3 Bat Model M's and can't shoot CCI primers in them. I get Hangfires and misfires. Federals work great and never had a problem. I also have an SB BAT that I can shoot CCI BR4's in with no problem.

You have $3000+ in actions that won't fire all brands of primers and this is acceptable to you? Later! Frank

 

[Milo 2.0]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

I don't know what you are asking or implying. I am giving you my experience and it is real. If you don't believe me by all means shoot all you want its your gun. Powders burn at different rates and if you use the wrong powder in a gun, it could blow up. If I can watch the firing pin fall on a Magnum action Remington I have altered the burn rate in another way. The bolt was sent to Greg Tannel and had the firing pin bushed and he told me the pin was off a lot and he cut the pin to make it come out of the bolt face further. It has a new barrel and the bolt fixed and shoots bug holes now. I don't know if this is whats wrong with the OPs gun but it is what was wrong with mine.

I'm hoping the hostility wasn't directed at me. I just wanted some clarification, as to how you came to this conclusion, that's all.
If a hangfire is excessive pressure, IMO it would be the kind on the low end, because a good portion of the powder would be burned before the bang. And can't fathom that being a barrel burner. Not questioning you, just want answers

 

[VaniB]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

I'd talk to the smith to start with, it really shouldn't have left the shop knowing something was awry. Then look into the load.

+1

+2

I've heard of hangfires but I'm glad I've never had that happen to me..... especially not on such a consistant basis so that your smith had made a note of it. Man, the thought of that is worrisome to me. I only use a delay with my dishwasher.

 

[RGRobinett]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

I have 3 Bat Model M's and can't shoot CCI primers in them. I get Hangfires and misfires. Federals work great and never had a problem. I also have an SB BAT that I can shoot CCI BR4's in with no problem.

Yep, check the firing-pin protrusion! My old reliable BAT Hunter rifle, which has won a fair amount of fake wood, fired everything it was ever fed: until a recent Wolf primer, debacle. The notoriously difficult to ignite CCIBR4 is my, "go to" primer, so having used the latter in the BAT, Rem. and Borden actions, without issues, when the BAT failed to "work" with the Wolf SRM offering, I began examining the cocking-piece/shroud for burrs . . . or, something - F-P protrusion was not on the list!

Three of the last four rifles (NEW BAT actions) assembled by a pal of mine exhibited erratic grouping and hang/miss-fires with the more popular Fed. 205 and 210 Match primers. All three had F-P protrusion of 0.048, or less. All were "cured" by simply correcting F-P protrusion to 0.055".

Oh, on his personal BAT HBR, which has produced less than desirable precision, in addition to less than desirable pin protrusion, Mike also noted excessive DRAG between the bolt-shroud and the cocking-piece - a new shroud was still too tight - lapping cured that issue. Following these corrections, the rifle now SHOOTS! On custom actions, we tend to take perfection for granted.

I'm not picking on BAT, just stating facts. BAT actions are GREAT - attributes such as F-P protrusion are taken for granted: regardless of manufacturer, this is one more attribute I will verify on any new action. Good shootin'! RG

 

[RGRobinett]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

When I first read this I thought about a gun I had built that had a firing pin in a PGT bolt that never had the pin protrusion set. It hang fired often and ruined a new barrel. Mr. Robbinette mentioned this on the first page, I know nothing of trigger hangers but would ask you to check the firing pin soon. This problem sounds the same as my gun in every way.

From Robinette:

Also, check the firing-pin protrusion - on several BAT actions, we have found protrusion, at 0.46-.048", to be less than the specified 0.052-0.55". On my BAT HBR rifle, with Wolf primers, this proved to be a deal-wrecker! On several recent builds,pals of mine have experienced the same thing - too little protrusion, thus, inconsistent ignition, including hang-fires. RG


I may be missing what was said by "Robbinette" but I read him saying it was a 'deal-wrecker" not a barrel ruiner. I had assumed the 'deal' went poorly not the barrel. Do I have it wrong?

Yes, the "deal wrecker", brought about by the "dumb move" of switching to primers which I had never tested (from CCI-BR4, to Wolf SRM), was in dropping a LOAD of points during a 200 Yd. tournament . Switching back to the BR4s, for the remainder of the two hundred and the 300, "saved the day". The 0.048" protrusion, while adequate for the BR4, was woefully inconsistent with the Wolf (hang-fires and 2" of vertical when they did go bang). Correcting the protrusion didn't hurt the BR4 loads, and made the Wolf offering, "work". Oh, both the Wolf and CCI primers were seated with a "crush"! RG

 

[Hondo]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

I had a similar situation happen to me.
After much head scratching I discovered that the firing pin block was binding delaying the firing pin drop for a fraction of a second.

 

[thefitter]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

Well I have checked everything and mechanically I think it's safe to say that all is well. IMHO it comes down to either the primers or me. And I just found a note I wrote that makes me 99% sure it's me :. You see I loaded these rounds only to zero the scope and fire form some brass...but I only filled the case to 77% (Milo you were right).

Soooo... I'll try loading the next batch with a proper amount of powder and try the Russian primers again and some CCI just in case.

Thanks

 

[Milo 2.0]

Re: Weird trigger delay?

Well I have checked everything and mechanically I think it's safe to say that all is well. IMHO it comes down to either the primers or me. And I just found a note I wrote that makes me 99% sure it's me :. You see I loaded these rounds only to zero the scope and fire form some brass...but I only filled the case to 77% (Milo you were right).

Soooo... I'll try loading the next batch with a proper amount of powder and try the Russian primers again and some CCI just in case.

Thanks

Of course after that comment, my head is the size of a large beach ball
You said it's a .338 LM, not improved or any variance, I don't see the need to light load to fire form cases. The barrel life on a LM can't be that great anyway, I surely wouldn't be wasting it fire forming brass.

Just for my info, tell me it wasn't US 869.
Keep us posted on your findings after firing it again.

 

[Raythemanroe]

I have seen people post these problems when using Russian primers before