VV equivalent to Varget

[Ranger188]

I used N140 with 69 and 77g SMK

 

[rijndael]

I saw Gavin on Ultimate Reloading ( UR on, YouTube ) talking about,. IT
Should BE,. "Awesome" stuff ! He will run, Tests !

What product has he ever reviewed that he didn't like?

 

[Walt Krafft]

how well does it meter i a powder thrower? would it be any more accurate shooting than Varget?

For 2-300 yards it throws as well as any stick powder. I Autotrickler everything over 300 yards and a lot of 300 yard loads if I have time for a big match.

 

[Laurie]

Laurie,
I have ran several tests with N-150 and N-165 in my dashers. 150 has several nodes with the 103-105 class Bullets from slow to formula 1. N-165 is way slower, but accurate. I have not tried N -160 yet, is it closer to 150 or 165?

CW

Interesting - I've never heard of N165 used in the Dasher. It's my 'standard' powder in a long-throat 284 F-Class Rifle with 175/180s, and is likewise a near-standard in the UK for 6.5-284 with 140s. It doesn't necessarily produce the highest MVs in such cartridges, but gives good groups, decent ES values, and as it's a low-energy / cool burning powder adds a fair bit to barrel life. It's a great, very flexible powder in suitable applications. It's a half to full-step 'slower' than H4831 in most applications.

To equate N150 and N160 to IMR / Hodgdon powder burn rates, N150 - as many have said in earlier posts, is a mite 'slower' than VarGet. N160 is fairly similar in respect to the 4350s, being a bit 'slower', but closer to them than to the 4831s that burn rate charts bracket it with. So, you can generally use it in those cartridges where 4350 works / is recommended. I tested it against H4350 in a long-throat 7mm-08 with the 160 Sierra TMK a couple of years back, here:

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=3624

It took 45.7gn N160 to match H4350's 45.0gn MV. I'm not sure how well it'd work in the Dasher. Might group well, but MVs would definitely be down on H. VarGet and N150.

 

[Laurie]

which VV powder do you recommend for a 223 shooting 69, 77 and 80 grain bullets

Both N135 and N140 would work across the trio, but I'd recommend N135 for the 69; 77 might be six of one and half-dozen of the other as we say in England; definitely N140 for the 80, although N135 can be used.

The late, great Glen Zediker in his book The Competitive AR15: The Mouse that Roared, mentions that many XTC shooters used N135 for all weights up to 80gn when Viht was first imported to the US, but later switched to slower grades, VarGet Re15, and N140/540 for 80s as they found they were running just too close to pressure problems with the heaviest bullet with N135.

N135 is markedly 'faster' than H4895 in the 223 despite what burn-rate charts show. It was my standard 68-70gn 223 powder in the days when I shot an AR (UK-legal, side-handle manual operation, no gas system), but I always used Re15 or N140 with the 80gn SMK and later same weight Bergers. I still use it in an F-Class rifle with 80s with very good, consistent results.

 

[jlshaw]

N140 is the right answer to nearly any sensible .223 600-yard question.

 

[Bc'z]

how well does it meter i a powder thrower? would it be any more accurate shooting than Varget?

I can set my thrower up to throw charges + or - .1gr of N140

 

[MasterYoda]

N140

 

[D-4297]

Go back enough years and N140 was the standard powder with 155s in the UK equivalent discipline 'Target Rifle'. (This was before Viht powders were imported into the US - we've had them a lot longer.)

Quite early on, I decided I preferred N150 in such loads despite everybody telling me it wouldn't work, as it was 'too slow'. It's worked very well for me with this bullet weight nevertheless in several 308 Win rifles and barrels, but both N140 and N150 are very suitable.

Move up to the 185 Juggernaut and Berger 200.20X and N150 is the powder in UK FTR used by nearly all top shooters. Small primer Lapua brass and heavy loads / high pressures.

My results with 150 almost mirror what Laurie & bpd459 has said , and it is actually faster in my barrel, than Varget with four tenths of a grain less powder per load . Nearly identical results with both Berger 185 Juggs , and 200.20x .

 

[barefooter56]

Tired of the gouging from Hodgedon powders. VV pricing is looking very good in today's market. Have several Dashers using Varget. In your own experience, what is closest to Varget for my Dasher applications running 95 to 105 gr bullets . Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thanks, Paul

On the VV POWDER BURNRATE CHART VARGET sits right between N-135 and N-140 / N-540

N140 rifle powder - Vihtavuori

Vihtavuori N140 rifle powder The N140 powder was originally developed for the 7,62x53R cartridge for the Finnish Army in the early years of Vihtavuori’s history. Up to this day, it has remained as one of our best-selling powder types of all times. N140 is a tubular powder type with grain...

www.vihtavuori.com

N135 rifle powder - Vihtavuori

N135 – the universal rifle powder Developed originally for 7.62×51 NATO M80 Ball, Vihtavuori’s N135 is today a universal gun powder which is used by reloaders for a large range of calibers from .222 Remington to .458 Winchester Magnum. The N135 is a tubular powder type with grain dimensions of...

www.vihtavuori.com

N540 high energy powder - Vihtavuori

Vihtavuori N540 is an excellent choice for cartridges running from the .223/5.56mm, .308 Win. and .30-06 Springfield with appropriate bullet weights. This is also a great powder for 6,5x47 Lapua and 6.5 Creedmoor as well as the .223 when using heavy bullets. Exceptionally clean-burning and...

www.vihtavuori.com

 

[gnatmm]

I have the feeling that N140 and N150 have become both faster than Varget recently, N140 by a good measure ( I hit pressure in alpha brass at 30.8-31 gn and 30.5 has become my limit for PRS handloading) and maybe just a tad for N150 ( I am happy at 31 gn in alpha brass, 105-109 bullets 2800-2820fps) where I hit pressure slightly above 31.5
So I don’t see many other real substitutes for Varget in the field especially for us on the right side of the pond. Fellow Americans, stockpile it whenever you can.
H4350 class of powders is more than a plan B for the Dasher ( I ran just a few tests but with promising outcome with RS-62 behind 115 DTaCs, quite slow 2700-ish, but accurate again in alpha brass. Fireformed Lapua fanboys might get good results with similar combos as s compressed load above 34 gn and ff Lapua I believe could store a full grain more easily.

 

[Mulligan]

I have the feeling that N140 and N150 have become both faster than Varget recently, N140 by a good measure ( I hit pressure in alpha brass at 30.8-31 gn and 30.5 has become my limit for PRS handloading) and maybe just a tad for N150 ( I am happy at 31 gn in alpha brass, 105-109 bullets 2800-2820fps) where I hit pressure slightly above 31.5
So I don’t see many other real substitutes for Varget in the field especially for us on the right side of the pond. Fellow Americans, stockpile it whenever you can.
H4350 class of powders is more than a plan B for the Dasher ( I ran just a few tests but with promising outcome with RS-62 behind 115 DTaCs, quite slow 2700-ish, but accurate again in alpha brass. Fireformed Lapua fanboys might get good results with similar combos as s compressed load above 34 gn and ff Lapua I believe could store a full grain more easily.

try 135 you will be happy
CW

 

[Turpentine]

I always preferred R-15 over Varget because of availability. Looks
like things have switched. Never had a chance to really work with it
but, R-15.5 could be a good choice if ever it is found, which I would
not hold my breath ??

Agree! though I never could get RL 15 to shoot in my rifle. I later went to AR Comp and it has been stellar. If you can find it. The 15.5 looks interesting too Though I have never seen a container of it. Amazing VV powder used to be the most expensive and now is one of the more reasonably priced options.

 

[Jeff Porter]

I have been switching over to VV and found N135 to be almost a 1:1 replacement for H4895 with 90gr .223 and 6BRA 105’s. May need 0.1gr more or less N-135 to match velo but groups are similar.

 

[Rick300]

I have been switching over to VV and found N135 to be almost a 1:1 replacement for H4895 with 90gr .223 and 6BRA 105’s. May need 0.1gr more or less N-135 to match velo but groups are similar.

That's weird because I have found that N150 has been a great replacement for H4895 in my BRA. It would be interesting to try N135, N140, and N150 back to back in a test to see the differences.

 

[Laurie]

That's weird because I have found that N150 has been a great replacement for H4895 in my BRA. It would be interesting to try N135, N140, and N150 back to back in a test to see the differences.

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=3811

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=3856

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=3934

 

[Mulligan]

That's weird because I have found that N150 has been a great replacement for H4895 in my BRA. It would be interesting to try N135, N140, and N150 back to back in a test to see the differences.

In my experiences, 140 is accurate (very accurate in both a BRA and Dasher), but will hit pressure well before the other two.
CW

 

[Murray Brook]

In my 6br I can't compare any VV powder to Varget. I never used it much because I wasn't able to source it when I began load dev in the 6 br. What I used was AR-Comp with 64 gr Stinger bullet and it worked great. My load was 31.5 gr for a vel of 3470 ft/sec with great accuracy ( high1's low 2's). Lately in an effort to rid myself of all Alliant powders due to price and sourcing I tried N-135 and found it to be great. As good as AR-Comp in my rifle. My load is 32.2 grs for a velocity of 3459 ft/sec with accuracy as good as AR-Comp. From this I would assume it to appx 1 gr slower than AR-Comp. JME

 

[Jeff Porter]

In the small sample test:

I shot 7 rounds of my standard 29.8gr H4895 with 105 Berger and got 2849.2 fps SD4.0 Spread 10 fps. 0.30" 100 yard group.

10 rounds with same 29.8gr. N135, same bullet brass primer - 2849.4 fps SD4.3, ES12.5 0.45" 100 yard group. No pressure signs.

I am running a jump test if it stops raining to see if I can squeezes these back down to the 0.25"-0.3" I usually see in this rifle.

In my .223 Palma rifle shooting the 90 VLD. 24.0 H4895 is about 2825 - N135 clocked at 2814 fps.

 

[Ned Ludd]

What I find interesting in the comparison of 135 to H4895 on quick load, is noting the speed is down and fill ratio compressed.

FWIW - in my hands, something with the VV powder data files in QL seems to be off. I recently compared loads with the exact same charge weight of H4895 or VV N135 with Ginex primers, Norma brass, and Hornady 73 ELDMs in a .223 Rem Sig 556 piston gun with an 18" barrel. The N135 load chrono'd over 80 fps faster than the same charge weight of H4895, all else being identical. Quickload did not "predict" anything like that using the factory preset burn rate. I have had similar experience with the VV N140 and N150 powder files in QL.