Vista Outdoor and the Primer Market
- Thread starter skeeljc
- Start date
My primer supply is fine. I planned ahead.
Remington was making exactly zero primers prior to Vista buying them. Vista bought them in an open auction. Anyone could have bid!!!!
If you think about it, it is just as easy to “shut down” two primer suppliers as one.
BTW, how would you have prevented this from happening??
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I will take CCI primers 100 to 1 over Rem. The problem with the stock is the previous idiot running the company when they went by ATK before the merger and split with Orbital, bought up a bunch of companies and over paid for them. Really dumb purchase like stoves and paddle boards and other crap. They have been selling them off for a fraction of what they paid for them. Luckily I sold all of my ATK stock while I still worked there just before the merger.
I believe if you go back and watch that again he immediately followed up after using the phrase “self sufficiency” by saying they were interested in “controlling their defense and protection” and then spoke about hunting. I think he did a great job answering her questions.
Brands – Vista Outdoor
vistaoutdoor.com
God, I wish we could still get Wolf primers. WE need Hunter and the big Guy to get a China primer and ammo pipeline flowing I am sure there is buck or two in it for them. Then all the week end warrior mag dump commandos that have a orgasmic experience from their smoke poles going bang can shoot their wad until Kingdom comes. (pun) they will be happy, and WE will be happy cause Federal and CCI will be plentiful on every (ELF) on a shelf.
D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
I have no issues with my current primer supply either . Think my post was directed towards the over-all situation . How would I fix what ? Allowing for one hedge fund to be in virtual control of a commodity as relevant and important as primers . Or does that classification become irrelevant because it associates with guns ? In a public crisis ; which I personally feel we may be headed for , I find that having a solid , stable primer supply is way more relevant than what could-be , might-be happening to my stock portfolio in the near future . With the wrong political situation in the future , ALL of our stock portfolios may become totally irrelevant . My Dad taught me one very simple fact about business . Never let a accountant run your business ! They will run it into the ground . Just ask Remington .
ronsatspokane
Gold $$ Contributor
Primers are important to who, would be the question. Important to you? Do you think those in the political aristocracy care about you? Look at it this way, government has taken an active role in creating business entities too large to fail every since 2007 and arguably well before that. Both sides of the political isle have participated. In the process they killed antitrust law. They are making noises about antitrust once again but if you expect to see action anytime soon then you are not following the money. The money is flowing into political campaigns. That money buys public policy and I think we all know what policy is being bought.
ronsatspokane
Gold $$ Contributor
Just wondering what you think you can accomplish. If you have a problem with the consolidation of a particular industry then you should be calling your Congress person. Your elected representitives are the only ones who can do anything about it. Primers are certainly important but those who reload a lot and have been bitten in the past stay stocked up. I'll run out eventually but I'm betting that the supply chain will catch up long before that happens. If it doesn't then we are all screwed and I'll be building a flintlock.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
They likely planned ahead...well ahead...meaning years ago, before primers sales from certain foreign entities were banned under the obama administration. I have seen russian primers advertised recently on Gunbroker, if one is willing to pay the asking price. However, unless the ban is lifted, even those supplies will eventually dry up completely.
Ahh, “antitrust” the beloved hammer of the liberal-socialist elite. This is what a great anti-collectivist philosopher thought about antitrust laws:
“The economic foundation of the antitrust laws is the socialist myth that unregulated, free-market results in the formation of coercive monopolies. (Eventually, through ‘historical necessity,’ they will form one big business which the ‘proletariat’ will take over with the establishment of communism.)
The political foundation of antitrust laws is that the individual does not have a right to liberty and property, but only holds property by the permission of the state.
The ethical foundation of the antitrust laws is the doctrine of altruism/collectivism that holds that the successful should sacrifice for others, and if they do not, they should be forced to do so.
To quote philosopher Ayn Rand writing on “Antitrust: The Rule of Unreason” in The Voice of Reason,”
Understanding Trusts and Anti-Trust Laws: What You Need to Know
Discover the economic benefits of trusts and the penalties of antitrust laws in this comprehensive guide. Learn about the Sherman Act and the Federal Trade Commission Act.
www.capitalism.org
BTW, any business that the government has made too big to fail pales in comparison to the failing government created socialist retirement and medical care programs that my children will be called on to bailout!!
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Vista isn’t a “hedge fund” it’s a publicly held corporation. I always wonder why and how the socialist/liberal, left-wing media’s demagoguery of hedge funds seeps into the minds of supposed capitalists???
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
Not "anyone" can make primers. Manufacturers have to have batf background checks for all employees handling regulated components. Do you suppose someone interested in limiting supplies may instruct employees to "slow" checks.
Apparently you haven’t watched the video posted in 2 other threads regarding the current state of ammo manufacturing at the 3 Vista plants. They have hired hundreds of new employees and are making more ammo than they ever have. The most recent 10-Q doesn’t mention anything about manufacturing bottlenecks.
ronsatspokane
Gold $$ Contributor
Ahh, “antitrust” the beloved hammer of the liberal-socialist elite. This is what a great anti-collectivist philosopher thought about antitrust laws:
“The economic foundation of the antitrust laws is the socialist myth that unregulated, free-market results in the formation of coercive monopolies. (Eventually, through ‘historical necessity,’ they will form one big business which the ‘proletariat’ will take over with the establishment of communism.)
The political foundation of antitrust laws is that the individual does not have a right to liberty and property, but only holds property by the permission of the state.
The ethical foundation of the antitrust laws is the doctrine of altruism/collectivism that holds that the successful should sacrifice for others, and if they do not, they should be forced to do so.
To quote philosopher Ayn Rand writing on “Antitrust: The Rule of Unreason” in The Voice of Reason,”
Understanding Trusts and Anti-Trust Laws: What You Need to Know
Discover the economic benefits of trusts and the penalties of antitrust laws in this comprehensive guide. Learn about the Sherman Act and the Federal Trade Commission Act.www.capitalism.org
BTW, any business that the government has made too big to fail pales in comparison to the failing government created socialist retirement and medical care programs that my children will be called on to bailout
Ah, I love a good economics discussion.Ahh, “antitrust” the beloved hammer of the liberal-socialist elite. This is what a great anti-collectivist philosopher thought about antitrust laws:
“The economic foundation of the antitrust laws is the socialist myth that unregulated, free-market results in the formation of coercive monopolies. (Eventually, through ‘historical necessity,’ they will form one big business which the ‘proletariat’ will take over with the establishment of communism.)
The political foundation of antitrust laws is that the individual does not have a right to liberty and property, but only holds property by the permission of the state.
The ethical foundation of the antitrust laws is the doctrine of altruism/collectivism that holds that the successful should sacrifice for others, and if they do not, they should be forced to do so.
To quote philosopher Ayn Rand writing on “Antitrust: The Rule of Unreason” in The Voice of Reason,”
Understanding Trusts and Anti-Trust Laws: What You Need to Know
Discover the economic benefits of trusts and the penalties of antitrust laws in this comprehensive guide. Learn about the Sherman Act and the Federal Trade Commission Act.www.capitalism.org
BTW, any business that the government has made too big to fail pales in comparison to the failing government created socialist retirement and medical care programs that my children will be called on to bailout!!
Written by someone who was not familiar with Adam Smith. The father of the modern world and capitalism. Being a fan of Ayn Rand (a dog eared copy of Atlas Shrugged sits in my bookcase just steps from my desk) labels me as a Capitalist pig but a capitalist pig who is also familiar with Adam Smith and his book that changed the world for the better. That'd be The Wealth Of Nations. What many self styled capitalists (and dogmatic Libertarians for that matter) fail to realize is the man who started it all recognized that the invisible hand of the marketplace must be bounded. This is necessary lest the excesses resulting from monopoly and collusion lead to the same market imbalances that markets under the control of unresponsive government (or in the days prior to Adam Smith, under the control of aristocracy and royalty) lead to. The bounds are set by reasonable laws. One form of those laws is antitrust. It can work if applied by a well managed and intelligent judicial system in the interest of the market rather than in the interest of the ruling dogma.
Now in the post that prompted the antitrust response, the person was concerned about the ease with which an unresponsive (or unrepresentative) government could sweep away an entire market were it concentrated into too few hands. I would argue that such a government could sweep away any market regardless of how broad the ownership of that market was. Reference the Gold Reserve Act of 1933 under Roosevelt. It made the private ownership of gold illegal. The gold trade was a huge market with very broad ownership which included monetary instruments which were made of gold. A world market gone, with the stroke of a pen.
So to me the bigger issue is the market imbalances resulting from market ownership concentrated into too few hands and the resulting potential for market imbalance. Now I don't think that is what we are seeing currently. I think it is a supply chain issue. The market is working just fine in that it is reacting to a very large increase in demand and it takes time for resources (raw materials and labor) to be allocated to satisfaction of that demand. Going forward however, the potential for market imbalance exists when one company owns the entire market.
P.S, we have recently received an invaluable lesson on the excesses resulting from ownership concentrated into to few hands. That'd be the censorship employed by social media in our most recent election. Zukerberg and Dorsey controlled the message many where hearing. That message changed the results of an election. Don't want antitrust? Then learn to live with the message the new aristocracy wants you to hear.
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Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
He made statements about staffing, when in fact there are only 2 production line openings at the Anoka, Mn. Plant. One on the weekend primer line, one on the weekend machine line. Mn manufacturing had to submit COVID plans to the state for review in order to be operating(per the governor executive order). Work station distancing, ppe and symptoms protocol have all limited production( not just ammo manufacturing).
ronsatspokane
Gold $$ Contributor
As I said, I love economic discussions. So that particular line launches down a sub-thread that does have a tangential impact on the main point of this thread. That being the scarcity of primers and the disposable income needed to purchase them in the current marketplace. Disposable income being the money left in your pocket after federal, state and local governments have taken their slice of your pie and you have met your existing financial obligations. Do you have enough left to buy primers at the current price? Many don't.
But, what many fail to realize is that the disposable income in their pockets is not theirs and the real property they think they own is not theirs either. Two "relatively" recent SCOTUS decisions made that abundantly clear and those decisions were rendered by a "conservative" court. The first was the ruling on Eminent Domain (Kelo v. City of New London in 2005). In that the court ruled that government could take your property and give it to someone else because that someone else promised to top up the government coffers at a higher rate than you are currently doing. That decision resulted in a government land grab nation wide. The other was the Obamacare decision in 2012. In that the court ruled that the government could penalize (tax they were forced to call it but we know what it really means, wink wink, nod nod, say no more...) you for NOT buying a specific product or in other words for not spending your disposable income in a fashion deemed appropriate by dogma of the ruling party. I doubt that the dogma of either party would penalize us for not buying primers and other reloading components (that would work for me), more likely the penalty could be for not buying a Prius or a gym membership or vegetables or other products in addition to insurance because those products are perceived to be in the best interest of the collective and particulary in the best interest of the ruling dogma.
So you see, it's already game over. Most were asleep when it happened and very few realize even today that what they perceive to be their property and their income, in reality already belongs to the collective and it can be taken away at any time. A good book that covers the economic and political process by which this happens (or happened) was written by an economist named F. A. Hayek during WWII after he escaped Austria for England. The book is called The Road to Serfdom. It had a pretty good impact in its day and is still widely read. Highly recommended.
Vista’s quarter ended in September reported a 26.4% jump in revenue and 109.7% jump in gross profit and an almost 340% increase in EBIT. This was before things really got going, wait till you see the 3rd quarter. Revenue is recognized when product ships. I don’t know how to make it any clearer, but here are the numbers:
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