Vista Outdoor and the Primer Market

[wagonman]

Cheddite primers have had quite a bit of problems with pierced primers in the past. Its been bad enough to scorch firing pins to the point of chipped pins. Any money saved is more than eaten up replacing them. I can vouch for the cost of k-80 firing pins over money saved using them. A lot of the cheap euro trash shells use them so be aware, if you see problems stop using them . It seems to affect the bottom barrels on over unders or unsingle barrels. I was told the angle of the firing pin causes some of it. As far as pressure signs what would you look for? Nothing that relates to the same in metallic loading. Use a manual and follow the data and you won't have problems. I started loading 20 gauge shells when I was 12 and used an old lee kit given to me buy a neighbor. A dipper for powder, and used a hammer to removed and reset the primer and to crimp.pretty crude compared to what I have now but at twelve years old I had more time than money! Lol.

I've never pierced a cheddite primer using them in a browning superposed or zoli o/u a poorly fitted firing pin can and will pierce any primer

 

[HTSmith]

I've never pierced a cheddite primer using them in a browning superposed or zoli o/u a poorly fitted firing pin can and will pierce any primer

I know folks that have used thousands of Cheddites with no issues. I on the other hand got pierced primers with them in both my Beretta 692 O/U and Beretta 390 Semiauto. It was only about 3 or 4 out of 25 shots and you have to know what to look for. It isn't a blanked hole like a rifle round, but rather a black firing pin indent. You wouldn't notice if you weren't comparing fired hulls side by side. I had the same issue with some Challenger brand factory loads. Not sure how much firing pin damage it could cause, but don't want to risk it (unless I have to )

Are my firing pins poorly fitted? Maybe, but I've never had any issues with Winchester, Federal, or Remington 209's. My advice would be to try a few of the Cheddites before you load up. Right now I think I'd buy some because I can't find anything else.

 

[Rsadams]

Cheddite primers have had quite a bit of problems with pierced primers in the past. Its been bad enough to scorch firing pins to the point of chipped pins. Any money saved is more than eaten up replacing them. I can vouch for the cost of k-80 firing pins over money saved using them. A lot of the cheap euro trash shells use them so be aware, if you see problems stop using them . It seems to affect the bottom barrels on over unders or unsingle barrels. I was told the angle of the firing pin causes some of it. As far as pressure signs what would you look for? Nothing that relates to the same in metallic loading. Use a manual and follow the data and you won't have problems. I started loading 20 gauge shells when I was 12 and used an old lee kit given to me buy a neighbor. A dipper for powder, and used a hammer to removed and reset the primer and to crimp.pretty crude compared to what I have now but at twelve years old I had more time than money! Lol.

Mainly the bottom barrels of Browning shotguns but it can be fixed so it stops by changing the pin... For other guns like my Beretta there's not that many problems... So far my friends have put thousands and thousands and tens of thousands through their guns with zero problems or at least very few.. I have put at least 2 thousand through my Beretta with zero problems or a single popped primer... Maybe they changed them or maybe putting the different firing pin stops it on the Browning... But I heard of what your talking about and we all have been watching closely for the past year or longer for problems and so far zero... Even if there was a problem and you want to compete in shotgun sports you can't find Primers so you have to use what you can get... We can't even find these anymore...
We are watching for this problem so far so good in Beretta , perazzi can't even afford to spell it , lol , Browning with the pin fix and Benelli plus a few other cheaper guns... Last box of Winchester 209s I saw online before I stopped looking was $400 a thousand and even good shot is getting crazy... We have been waiting on a 13 ton order since April... Everytime I call it's supposed to be here tomorrow...

 

[Rsadams]

I know folks that have used thousands of Cheddites with no issues. I on the other hand got pierced primers with them in both my Beretta 692 O/U and Beretta 390 Semiauto. It was only about 3 or 4 out of 25 shots and you have to know what to look for. It isn't a blanked hole like a rifle round, but rather a black firing pin indent. You wouldn't notice if you weren't comparing fired hulls side by side. I had the same issue with some Challenger brand factory loads. Not sure how much firing pin damage it could cause, but don't want to risk it (unless I have to )

Are my firing pins poorly fitted? Maybe, but I've never had any issues with Winchester, Federal, or Remington 209's. My advice would be to try a few of the Cheddites before you load up. Right now I think I'd buy some because I can't find anything else.

The way he is explaining the way the popped primers look is exactly correct... I am definitely not saying it doesn't happen because it is a problem you have to watch for.... Unfortunately right now I am not sure we're to get any shotgun Primers of any brand... We are having a problem even getting powder... Even shot is getting low and EVERYTHING has gone up a pretty good amount...

Luckily I started shooting skeet right before covid and I know what can happen so as soon as it started I stocked up... But Shooting even a few rounds a week takes alot of shells and now money.... It takes some of the fun away from it... There's about 10 of us that meet twice a week to shoot and so far with everybody helping each other we have managed to stay at it during all this crap... I hope we can all get back to the thing that we love to do very soon...

 

[jk80]

I know folks that have used thousands of Cheddites with no issues. I on the other hand got pierced primers with them in both my Beretta 692 O/U and Beretta 390 Semiauto. It was only about 3 or 4 out of 25 shots and you have to know what to look for. It isn't a blanked hole like a rifle round, but rather a black firing pin indent. You wouldn't notice if you weren't comparing fired hulls side by side. I had the same issue with some Challenger brand factory loads. Not sure how much firing pin damage it could cause, but don't want to risk it (unless I have to )

Are my firing pins poorly fitted? Maybe, but I've never had any issues with Winchester, Federal, or Remington 209's. My advice would be to try a few of the Cheddites before you load up. Right now I think I'd buy some because I can't find anything else.

I know exactly what to look for. I go through 60 to 80 flats a year and have shot about any shell you could name. Firing pins aren't the problem. No other primers caused these problems. As far as fit of the pins I'd say kreighoff has a pretty good handle on the situation. The gun gets an annual check yearly and problems would be noticed then. Not trying to sound like a know it all, just that this is one area where I do know a bit, unlike rifles. Thats why I'm here, thinking about giving f class a try and want to learn. If you're happy with Cheddites, great. Just want people to know to look out for possible problems. The primers I had problems with were not hard to see there was an issue! Lol.

 

[HTSmith]

I know exactly what to look for. I go through 60 to 80 flats a year and have shot about any shell you could name. Firing pins aren't the problem. No other primers caused these problems. As far as fit of the pins I'd say kreighoff has a pretty good handle on the situation. The gun gets an annual check yearly and problems would be noticed then. Not trying to sound like a know it all, just that this is one area where I do know a bit, unlike rifles. Thats why I'm here, thinking about giving f class a try and want to learn. If you're happy with Cheddites, great. Just want people to know to look out for possible problems. The primers I had problems with were not hard to see there was an issue! Lol.

Give the F-Class a go. They are very friendly people. I won the last match. Explanation--I won target pulling contest. I pulled for a high, high master--didn't have too look far.

 

[Richard308]

He needs to quit flirting with the liberal chick and get busy making some primers. I bet she was baiting him and was going to drop the gun control bomb at any second.

What about the possibility of these ammunition manufacturers making handloading a thing of the past ?
If you want to shoot, you will buy their ammunition, or you won't shoot. Sierra Ammunition among others are putting MatchKings on their rifle ammo, so you have no need to buy their bullets. Primers are now going into their production of ammo and there appears to be no relief in sight for a normal supply coming anytime soon.
The government can now, get the manufacturers to micro-stamp, and mark ammunition just like they proposed doing a few years back. Maybe even put markers in the powder. All of this has already been considered if you recall. Not trying to be a tin foil wearer, just bring up the possibility. There is a lot of crap going on now in Congress over the AR15, and who should be able to own what.
The late great anti-gunner, Sen. Ted Kennedy, while fighting for gun legislation in the 1980's, proposed drying up the ammunition so guns would become useless. Back then, most politicians didn't know which end of a gun to point. They have now, become A LOT more informed on things like "uppers and lowers", and they now, probably know what part of a cartridge that needed to make a gun go "bang".

 

[jelenko]

ammunition manufacturers making handloading a thing of the past ?

If so, why are they still shipping primers?

 

[nakneker]

Primers will come back, might take awhile but they will be back. This is like reliving the last component drought all over again albeit A bit worse. I think the CEO of Vista has been about as transparent as he can be. Basically tells it like it is, If they make Ammo you can be sure they will put aside as many primers as they want to meet the demand. Ammo seems to be slowing a bit though, I see it in stock more and more and some of the pricing seems to be backing off at least a little bit. People can only buy so much, all this panic buying means a lot of people have what they need for coming years, which means slower sales at some point. 2019 was just getting back to normal I thought, supply lines were well stocked and pricing was getting back to normal till this happened.

 

[Richard308]

If so, why are they still shipping primers?

I don't know if they are shipping primers or not.
There are no primers available in my part of the state.
If so, there are very little. Distributors I deal with are still waiting.

 

[jk80]

Give the F-Class a go. They are very friendly people. I won the last match. Explanation--I won target pulling contest. I pulled for a high, high master--didn't have too look far.

Getting things set up and have a guy I shot trap with for years helping. Practicing now and realizing how much I have to learn! I've reloaded for years but mainly to save money. If the shells held minute of coyote that was great! I watched one match and knew I'd have to give it a go! Thanks for the encouragment.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

What about the possibility of these ammunition manufacturers making handloading a thing of the past ?
If you want to shoot, you will buy their ammunition, or you won't shoot. Sierra Ammunition among others are putting MatchKings on their rifle ammo, so you have no need to buy their bullets. Primers are now going into their production of ammo and there appears to be no relief in sight for a normal supply coming anytime soon.
The government can now, get the manufacturers to micro-stamp, and mark ammunition just like they proposed doing a few years back. Maybe even put markers in the powder. All of this has already been considered if you recall. Not trying to be a tin foil wearer, just bring up the possibility. There is a lot of crap going on now in Congress over the AR15, and who should be able to own what.
The late great anti-gunner, Sen. Ted Kennedy, while fighting for gun legislation in the 1980's, proposed drying up the ammunition so guns would become useless. Back then, most politicians didn't know which end of a gun to point. They have now, become A LOT more informed on things like "uppers and lowers", and they now, probably know what part of a cartridge that needed to make a gun go "bang".

Scary as hell, isn’t it!

 

[wbm]

Yeah. It is.

 

[jelenko]

I don't know if they are shipping primers or not.
There are no primers available in my part of the state.
If so, there are very little. Distributors I deal with are still waiting.

I've been using the primerprimer tool the past several months. There have been a lot of primers show up at Brownells, Midway, Midsouth and Natchez. They've stayed 'in stock' long enough for me to get some.

And, there's all the primers that show up on, gasp, Gunbroker.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I don’t think it will happen either. But the thought of it, makes you pucker up a little bit.

 

[D-4297]

FOX Business News is the perfect place for a retired tool and die guy to get his investment news!

Let me know the tickers of the investments she’s made in the past 5.5 months that have more than doubled.

Compared to the progression of some of the idiotic threads that have been started lately this one is pretty tame! At least someone who followed my advice would have made some real money.

BTW, 88,899 and counting.

I read your comment to my wife and her response was ; "Humph ; He sounds like a Day Trader" . Speculator , Gambler . ( Her words , Not mine ) Kind of makes ya wonder , though ...

 

[Richard308]

I've been using the primerprimer tool the past several months. There have been a lot of primers show up at Brownells, Midway, Midsouth and Natchez. They've stayed 'in stock' long enough for me to get some.

And, there's all the primers that show up on, gasp, Gunbroker.

Thanks for the heads ups. I don't check Brownell's very often.