Vertical problems at 1k

[Hoier]

I am issues with vertical at 1k with my 6br. The gun is a Bat SV with a Bartlein barrel. I just shot a match this weekend and was getting 9" of vertical, I was probably getting 2-3" of horizonal.

So after the match I chroned my load and am getting 2920fps with a 10es and a 2sd. This is over a ten shot string, I shot 2 strings and the other was close but a little worse with one that was out 10fps.

So what coud be causing me my vertical?

Thanks

Nick

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Increase or decrease your powder charge until vertical is minimal, then do the same with seating depth. Do this at 1k. How did you tune?

 

[Erik Cortina]

Increase or decrease your powder charge until vertical is minimal, then do the same with seating depth. Do this at 1k. How did you tune?

I would go straight to seating depth. ES is low enough that it should have minimum vertical.

 

[Hoier]

I shoot a ladder at 300. Then I play with seating depth. But maybe I'll hit the range and revisit seating depth.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Ladders work best at the distance you intend to shoot.

 

[Hoier]

Its a long haul to my 1k range to shoot a ladder. Which is why I shoot at 300, it's the longest my local range has. To go out to Byers is like a 2 hour drive one way.

 

[Hoier]

105 Hybrid and Varget and CCI 450s.

 

[dmoran]

You will not know for sure the vertical is out at 1000 unless you look at it at 1000.
Just seen it again the other day, guy was tuning good groups at 450yds with a 280-AI, then took it to 1000 and vertical plagued.
And is why I only final tune at 1000 (or desired distance).

 

[Hoier]

I guess in the off season I will try to get it figured out. go out there and camp for the weekend or something.

 

[6BRinNZ]

You will not know for sure the vertical is out at 1000 unless you look at it at 1000.
Just seen it again the other day, guy was tuning good groups at 450yds with a 280-AI, then took it to 1000 and vertical plagued.
And is why I only final tune at 1000 (or desired distance).

If you had low es/sd and good groups at shorter ranges what would you change? Or are you saying it is only possible by running through the process at 1k. Not trying to create an argument just interested in what you would change.

Tom - same question to you.

 

[dmoran]

If you had low es/sd and good groups at shorter ranges what would you change? Or are you saying it is only possible by running through the process at 1k. Not trying to create an argument just interested in what you would change.

Seating most often will be the culprit....
But it can be charge, tension, etc...
Best to running through at intended distance.

 

[BradY]

You need to first make sure there was no condition there for inducing vertical. Boiling mirage or a head/tail wind for instance. Was there potentially something in the condition that you couldnt see but other shooters did? If that was all fine, then look at your rifle.

First I would definitely work with seating depth. But if you cant find any more success with seating depth I would also look at trying BR4's. In the past I have found that small cases sometimes get vertical from magnum primers, as magnum primers arent really needed. Varget, and especially in a short fat powder column like a 6BR, does not need a magnum primer to spark it off. Your ES and SD isnt an issue and should greatly assist 1000yd shooting. I would suggest trying again with the softer primer. You might have to adjust powder charge to get a load accurate. Last time I checked my dasher had an ES of 9fps over 10 shots using H4895 and BR4's with 105 hybrids and maintained X ring elevation at 1000yd F class.

At the end of the day you can only use load development at short range as an indication of what to try further out. There is never any guarantees with shooting, but theres always plenty of good leads to follow. I once tried load development at 1000yds looking at vertical spread of different charges. It worked well but I was lucky to have both Electronic Targets to do it with, and a very calm day with little in the way of condition to affect the bullets in flight. That load worked brilliantly from 300-1000yds and shot very tight at 100yds as well. Since that day I have never had the time or conditions to load test at 1000yds again. Ive embraced working loads at short range and deliberately shot them at 1000yds to test their worth. Not all were good, but some were fantastic (dasher especially). As 1000yds is often where most shooting is done (BR and F Class) it makes sense to trust the results of shooting at that range. I think if your target shows vertical then you need to do something about it- even if it will bughole at 300yds.

 

[brxbrad]

Sounds like conditions to me too. The same thing happened to me this weekend at 1k. Shot a 199-8 then on the next relay I shot 5 sighters, all 10's, and about the 4th shot for record I followed that up with verticle problems. Shots went from top to bottom 9 ring and ended up with 192-?. The fellow next to me saw the condition change and I didn't.

 

[Hoier]

You know guys, once I went to the hybrids I've always had vertical. I always just wrote it off to conditions. But we had good conditions this weekend. So I think I might go back to the 108s.

 

[dmoran]

I can't say it's the only way, look what Jim O'Hara has done. But I will say it's the only way I have confidence in.

Tom

+++1 ..... agree 100% ..... particularly for 1000yd Benchrest (where 3" vertical/X-ring or less is the demand)

 

[tclaunch]

You know guys, once I went to the hybrids I've always had vertical. I always just wrote it off to conditions. But we had good conditions this weekend. So I think I might go back to the 108s.

Bingo, I`ll even guess that you were jumping them. Put them +.012" and adjust with powder till tight verticle.

Worse bullet for verticle I ever tried when jumping them. I may finally have a barrel that will shoot them, next trip out will tell, I`m +.012

 

[tclaunch]

Oh yeah, thanks Johara for all your suggestions on here. Some have helped me out.

 

[normmatzen]

Your speed statistics look great, as long as the sample was large enough.

I would look at simple things like how tight the front rest bag is as well as how well the stock fits the rear bag?

 

[Warren Dean]

Most of time, in my experience, vertical is induced by the shooter. Sometimes it is conditions, but gun handling errors show up at 1k that aren't visible at shorter ranges.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

This is why I have never had luck tuning at short range. You have good groups and good es at 300 but it doesnt hold up at 1k. I would be more surprised if it did. Unfortunately I think to get everything out of your gun you have to tune at 1k. I hate doing it because it is a pain setting up in the dark waiting for the sun to come up so you get that 20 minutues when everything is dead calm, if I could do it at 100 I would. I did a seating depth test at 300 and 1k, same test. At 300 touch was the best, at 1k .020 off was best, touch was vertical.