Using sighters to measure wind speed or direction

[6.5 forever]

Fellas, all you gotta do is shoot a sighter and see where she falls then hold accordingly. It doesnt matter if the flags are going 8 different directions, you got 7 minutes to earn fame and fortune.

Dusty. very Simple and TRUE!!!

Turning posts on these forums will not accomplish much.

Go shoot and observe and you will learn!!!

 

[Shooter13]

I think a lot has to do with the disciplines we shoot. For a 30 cal in UBR the dot is .050" at 100 yards, take a look at that and tell me you can run right out and shoot a 264? A lot of short range guys are capable and I don't know the number of guys that have done it but I'm not one of them (yet).

 

[Jeff Porter]

To me it depends on the match and your skill level. If you don’t really know your rigs true drift in conditions this is a good way to learn by shooting with no correction and seeing the impact. I am a sling shooter not BR and was having trouble making good wind calls. I spent an afternoon on a range shooting in switchy winds watching conditions and impacts. After a while I was able to see the “best” condition and wait for that to shoot. Since that time I am more confident in the wind calls and have put a lot of cold bore X’s in the score book. It takes more than a wind meter and a ballistics program to learn the wind.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Wasn't this brought up about the takdriver match, where it seems the long range guys didn't utilize sighters much, where the short range guys do? I think the results speak volumes about the importance of sighters. They are the best flags and they tell you where the next shot will go, if the condition truly holds. Like Frankie said above, that .050" dot is pretty small and even a very slight change in the flags will absolutely blow you off of that dot. Flags and sighters are the two most important things to fully utilize in a match where precision shot placement is the goal. You can't buy wins in a tough sport like this with the gun alone. Most everyone at a real match has very good equipment and it's not an equipment race. It's who learns to use the tools at their disposal best. Use flags and use sighters whenever the rules allow them. The End.

 

[Fuj]

Developing a new wild cat named, "Flag in a Can".....Stay tuned !!
Pun intended.....

 

[Downhill]

When I started high power across the course, the old guys would tell me "Don't chase the damn spotting disc!" When I stubbornly stopped and watched conditions my scores went up.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

When I started high power across the course, the old guys would tell me "Don't chase the damn spotting disc!" When I stubbornly stopped and watched conditions my scores went up.

I'd love to know the logic behind their advice. I'm not familiar with high power so maybe there's something to it but I honestly can't imagine why I wouldn't want to base where where my record shot will go off of as close as possible to the same thing. I'm not good enough at flag reading to KNOW that the condition is EXACTLY what I shot in prior to having to stop my string and wait on what I hope is the same condition unless I can confirm it with something. That's what sighters do.

 

[Schippergreg]

So many times when you shoot a sighter you may see a wind switch and that is why I think we need to shoot with both eye open (one on the flags and one on target) and be able to hurry up and wait for your condition to return, easier said than done!

I’ve been working on reloading without looking, it definitely helps me to see if there is a change in the flags. Once the shot breaks focus on nothing but the flags and load without taking your eyes off of them.

 

[Mikemontminy]

I don’t shoot high power but shoot F-Class. When I started we used pit services to mark targets. Now most of the clubs use electronic targets. With pit services the target is pulled down after each shot and marked for score. Also marked is the impact with a spotter. The best guys could pull a target mark the score and raise the target back into position for the next shot In about 5 seconds. Could take up to 10 seconds for some. That’s a lot of time and conditions will usually change. That’s why you shouldn’t make adjustments or hold off based only on your last shot. With the electronic targets there should be a delay programmed into the system to match what the pit service would provide. Some of the clubs around here don’t have that delay programmed into the system and you can run the gun based on your last shot If conditions hold.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I don’t shoot high power but shoot F-Class. When I started we used pit services to mark targets. Now most of the clubs use electronic targets. With pit services the target is pulled down after each shot and marked for score. Also marked is the impact with a spotter. The best guys could pull a target mark the score and raise the target back into position for the next shot In about 5 seconds. Could take up to 10 seconds for some. That’s a lot of time and conditions will usually change. That’s why you shouldn’t make adjustments or hold off based only on your last shot. With the electronic targets there should be a delay programmed into the system to match what the pit service would provide. Some of the clubs around here don’t have that delay programmed into the system and you can run the gun based on your last shot If conditions hold.

I appreciate your effort but I'm still lost...as usual. Lol! It seems you're saying not to chase the last shot because the condition might change...But that's exactly why I would chase the last shot, especially with any indication of a change. It seems like you're saying just run them and hope for a fast pit crew and luck. Again, just trying to understand, especially when there is time between shots.

 

[Shooter13]

I don’t shoot high power but shoot F-Class. When I started we used pit services to mark targets. Now most of the clubs use electronic targets. With pit services the target is pulled down after each shot and marked for score. Also marked is the impact with a spotter. The best guys could pull a target mark the score and raise the target back into position for the next shot In about 5 seconds. Could take up to 10 seconds for some. That’s a lot of time and conditions will usually change. That’s why you shouldn’t make adjustments or hold off based only on your last shot. With the electronic targets there should be a delay programmed into the system to match what the pit service would provide. Some of the clubs around here don’t have that delay programmed into the system and you can run the gun based on your last shot If conditions hold.

While I think every discipline require a different "view" I don't think you could get by without seeing what the sighter does (100 yards to 300 meters). The wind can change in microseconds and reverse from what you just looked at. While all that is true at short range UBR we have 10 minutes to complete a target (match) so watching a sighter AND conditions is imperative for us. I can wait on conditions for sure (even though that is not my normal course). There are many times with bad wind we will hold on the 8 ring (and prey) and watch it hit the .050 dot (30 cal). My fastest course has been less than 1 minute for 6 record targets and a couple of sighters, seeing where they go and watching the wind and pulling the trigger while the condition holds, I was using someone else gun (minr had powder in the trigger we found out later) and shooting a perfect score of 66, my buddy @John Beauchamp loaned me his gun and said I'm holding at 12 o'clock on the 10 ring, I shot one or 2 sighters and let it rip!

 

[Mikemontminy]

I appreciate your effort but I'm still lost...as usual. Lol! It seems you're saying not to chase the last shot because the condition might change...But that's exactly why I would chase the last shot, especially with any indication of a change. It seems like you're saying just run them and hope for a fast pit crew and luck. Again, just trying to understand, especially when there is time between shots.

If the last shot was 10 seconds ago there is a good chance that the condition will change. Wouldn’t make corrections based only on where that last shot landed. Make sure the flags look the same as they did when you took that shot If your going to make corrections based off that shot.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

If the last shot was 10 seconds ago there is a good chance that the condition will change. Wouldn’t make corrections based only on where that last shot landed. Make sure the flags look the same as they did when you took that shot If your going to make corrections based off that shot.

I think I'll just let this go. I think it's more trouble to explain my question than it's worth, if the answer is to do what works. Seems it's about time from sighter to record, etc. I'm good! Thanks!

 

[Fairchaser]

What if the wind is stronger at the 80yd flag and almost non existent at 15yds? What if the wind is stronger at 15yds than at 80? Wind is not constant across a range so I doubt data would be also.

This is exactly why I allow the bullet to measure the true wind. One must still dope the conditions to measure the changes. If the conditions show a slow down of 2 mph, the chart would show the change of the poi for the next shot. Make the adjustment and fire the shot. Measure poi, assess conditions, make adjustment, fire the shot. This is I believe the same process the top shooters use except theirs is more intuitive. But behind this method are the numbers.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Now I understand why the lower third is usually always the lower third.

 

[Jeff Porter]

I think I'll just let this go. I think it's more trouble to explain my question than it's worth, if the answer is to do what works. Seems it's about time from sighter to record, etc. I'm good! Thanks!

I’ll give it a go even though you say you are good. . There is a saying in High Power sling shooters …. “is it the same or has it changed ?” I watch the pick ups and let offs and switches in wind direction and try to determine the most frequent condition that is occurring prior to taking the firing line. When you get into position to shoot you check the flags, mirage and grass or trees blowing down range and pick an indicator during the dominant condition. Pick something you can see from your belly behind the gun. In your example … on a sighter where shot is not in the middle… you should chase the spotter and get the dope to bring you in the middle. Once you are there, check the “indicator” you chose and be disciplined enough to wait for your condition and break shots quickly when it arrives with the sight setting you had for that condition. When you break the shot and follow through…. Check your indicator and ask…” is it the same or has it changed ? “. If the indicator is the same but your shot is not on call in the middle … it is not advisable to crank the knob to correct windage error to “chase the spotter. It is you dude. If the condition has changed and in a direction that accounts for the off call shot. Wait for your condition and shoot again and then ask the same question. Minor tweaks or hold offs inside the 10 ring can be made but it takes a huge change in wind conditions with a short time left in the stage to make me crank the knob to a new condition zero.

If you only turn the knobs in response to the previous shots location and correct to center without looking and conditions or being brutally honest about your shot call… you are chasing the spotter and likely to shoot a bunch of 9’s and 8’s.

The other old adage is a minute of hold beats 3 mph wind call holds true. It all works better when you can shoot x ring size groups to start with.

 

[Schippergreg]

This is exactly why I allow the bullet to measure the true wind. One must still dope the conditions to measure the changes. If the conditions show a slow down of 2 mph, the chart would show the change of the poi for the next shot. Make the adjustment and fire the shot. Measure poi, assess conditions, make adjustment, fire the shot. This is I believe the same process the top shooters use except theirs is more intuitive. But behind this method are the numbers.

No offense but I believe that you are over thinking this. The wind velocity from 0-100yds may vary by 5+mph at any random distance. Charts can’t predict this. You need to shoot the condition to see how it effects the point of impact.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I’ll give it a go even though you say you are good. . There is a saying in High Power sling shooters …. “is it the same or has it changed ?” I watch the pick ups and let offs and switches in wind direction and try to determine the most frequent condition that is occurring prior to taking the firing line. When you get into position to shoot you check the flags, mirage and grass or trees blowing down range and pick an indicator during the dominant condition. Pick something you can see from your belly behind the gun. In your example … on a sighter where shot is not in the middle… you should chase the spotter and get the dope to bring you in the middle. Once you are there, check the “indicator” you chose and be disciplined enough to wait for your condition and break shots quickly when it arrives with the sight setting you had for that condition. When you break the shot and follow through…. Check your indicator and ask…” is it the same or has it changed ? “. If the indicator is the same but your shot is not on call in the middle … it is not advisable to crank the knob to correct windage error to “chase the spotter. It is you dude. If the condition has changed and in a direction that accounts for the off call shot. Wait for your condition and shoot again and then ask the same question. Minor tweaks or hold offs inside the 10 ring can be made but it takes a huge change in wind conditions with a short time left in the stage to make me crank the knob to a new condition zero.

If you only turn the knobs in response to the previous shots location and correct to center without looking and conditions or being brutally honest about your shot call… you are chasing the spotter and likely to shoot a bunch of 9’s and 8’s.

The other old adage is a minute of hold beats 3 mph wind call holds true. It all works better when you can shoot x ring size groups to start with.

Thank you...and agreed. I probably misunderstood what the other Mike was saying but your and my view is much the same on this. Thanks

 

[Fairchaser]

Thanks for everyone’s responses on this topic. I can see now the differences. My methods might be more applicable in a pair fire match where one must dope changes between shots due to time limits. What I’m hearing from you is to wait on your condition and not try to dope changes as that might prove impossible. Then chase the spotter inside of your condition around the ten ring for small changes. Then wait for the next time for this condition again before proceeding.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Thanks for everyone’s responses on this topic. I can see now the differences. My methods might be more applicable in a pair fire match where one must dope changes between shots due to time limits. What I’m hearing from you is to wait on your condition and not try to dope changes as that might prove impossible. Then chase the spotter inside of your condition around the ten ring for small changes. Then wait for the next time for this condition again before proceeding.

Ok, now your starting to understand. Live by the flags , they are your friend. And.....don't try and reinvent the wheel,which translates to, I want an easier way, this is too hard. Work at it, you will be rewarded.