Tuning AR Varmint for softest recoil 223

[karrarararararar]

Another vote for suppressor. Got mine in August and it's a game changer with how enjoyable it is. You can always get the barrel threaded.

I've also been running an Armaspec captured buffer in my service rifle and really enjoy it. If definitely feels smoother than the geissele I was running before. Just make sure to get the Gen 3

 

[BobbyJ]

Another vote for suppressor. Got mine in August and it's a game changer with how enjoyable it is. You can always get the barrel threaded.

I've also been running an Armaspec captured buffer in my service rifle and really enjoy it. If definitely feels smoother than the geissele I was running before. Just make sure to get the Gen 3

Appreciate the input. Suppression is not in the cards on these though, at least for now. How much and how long did you wait on the suppressor?

For now I use 3M PELTOR TacticalPro Communications Headsets, my buddies have them none have a suppressor so I would end up having to use head sets anyway. I use my PCP for ultra quite suppression.

 

[Jeff Porter]

Get a buttstock that fits you in your shooting position. A2 or collapsible. I like the magpul UBR with extra weight in it. If you get a H2 or H3 weight buffer to try along with dialing down the gas block to where it will function reliably you can change the recoil felt impulse. A silent capture type device will too. I am not sure it will eliminate the muzzle flip like a brake or suppressor will but since your barrel isn’t threaded I would see if trying that will allow you to stay on the target through recoil

 

[BobbyJ]

i like to use the JP silent capture buffer assembly to rid of the spring sound I here through the Tupperware stocks. They seem to be a smoother recoil than the regular springs too.

Funny my son just put one of those in the stock, never tried it. Its heavier that a rifle buffer though. Thought with an adjustable gas + lighter bullets it maybe too heavy for recoil reduction but we shall see.

 

[andym686]

I added a heavy buffer:
(heavybuffers.com)
And an adjustable gas block from Superlative Arms to my Rock River Varmint. But it made a heavy gun even heavier - Which is ok for my purpose.

 

[karrarararararar]

Appreciate the input. Suppression is not in the cards on these though, at least for now. How much and how long did you wait on the suppressor?

For now I use 3M PELTOR TacticalPro Communications Headsets, my buddies have them none have a suppressor so I would end up having to use head sets anyway. I use my PCP for ultra quite suppression.

Mine took 6 months with the new eform system. They're averaging right at 7 months right now. Supposedly the goal is 90 day wait times, which they were at first, but then they just kept climbing. My can was around $750, but there's definitely cheaper options. I went with a silencerco hybrid 46 because it's multi-cal rated up to 45-70, so I can put it on pretty much anything with I want.

 

[BobbyJ]

What about a UTG over bore bipod? They are pretty heavy and stable, doubt the heavy barrel is going to jump much with that thing on the end.

 

[karrarararararar]

I added a heavy buffer:
(heavybuffers.com)
And an adjustable gas block from Superlative Arms to my Rock River Varmint. But it made a heavy gun even heavier - Which is ok for my purpose.

+1 on the superlative arms. I just put one on a 260 AR10 and it was stupid easy to dial in.

 

[BobbyJ]

I added a heavy buffer:
(heavybuffers.com)
And an adjustable gas block from Superlative Arms to my Rock River Varmint. But it made a heavy gun even heavier - Which is ok for my purpose.

Have you compared a heavy buffer (h3 or more) to a h buffer in 223 (rifle gas system) using adjustable gas block? Just curious of how much the "Felt" recoil is actually changed from one extreme to another. Is it barley noticeable or a WOW this light buffer is really soft shooting. I'm trying to avoid experimenting hoping to learn from someone else on this front.

Ie lets say we are shooting 53 gr Vmax
1 - Use a lighter 3 oz buffer and min gas to lock open the action vs
2. Use a heavy like 5-6oz buffer and adjust the gas to just lock the option (would take a little more gas than option 1)

My gun will probably be 11 pounds with a scope/rings on it + what ever a UTG Bipod weighs probably 12-13 pound gun. More if I add weight to the A2 stock.

 

[andym686]

Have you compared a heavy buffer (h3 or more) to a h buffer in 223 (rifle gas system) using adjustable gas block? Just curious of how much the "Felt" recoil is actually changed from one extreme to another. Is it barley noticeable or a WOW this light buffer is really soft shooting. I'm trying to avoid experimenting hoping to learn from someone else on this front.

Ie lets say we are shooting 53 gr Vmax
1 - Use a lighter 3 oz buffer and min gas to lock open the action vs
2. Use a heavy like 5-6oz buffer and adjust the gas to just lock the option (would take a little more gas than option 1)

My gun will probably be 11 pounds with a scope/rings on it + what ever a UTG Bipod weighs probably 12-13 pound gun. More if I add weight to the A2 stock.

I did not do any comparison. I was seeking a way to reduce the gas from the suppressor coming back through the action, and make it feel a little less "violent".
I put the heavy buffer in first, and then installed the adjustable gas block.
The adjustable gas block probably helped the most.
I do understand not wanting to buy and try a lot of different parts.
Good luck with your project.

 

[BobbyJ]

I did not do any comparison. I was seeking a way to reduce the gas from the suppressor coming back through the action, and make it feel a little less "violent".
I put the heavy buffer in first, and then installed the adjustable gas block.
The adjustable gas block probably helped the most.
I do understand not wanting to buy and try a lot of different parts.
Good luck with your project.

Ahh yea heard the suppressor do increase gas pressure somewhat. Going to test that Odin adj gas block over the weekend and put the gun in a lead sled to see if I can get 1/2 MOA. My first build shoots everything under 1 MOA but not tried it on a stable rest yet. I'm hoping around 1/2 or so.

 

[Toddmack]

A lightweight carrier along with adjustable gas block worked well for me.

 

[BobbyJ]

A lightweight carrier along with adjustable gas block worked well for me.

I took both the of Aero + EBCO 24" barrels to the range Sat. The all black on was a little over gased with Aero fixed .936 gas block the heavy JB buffer helped bring ejection to 3 oclock but it felt a little bit harser recoil vs the Tan one with Odin Adjustable gas block + 2.9oz standard carbine buffer.
I was not able to completely shut down the odins gas, it would not lock up but the bolt did come back some.
Adjusted it so 53gr rounds ejected at 3 oclock. It did feel a little softer.

Both guns shot well for a 10-20MPH gusty day. Benches are wood on wooden planks so when people walk near you you scope vibrates and makes it tricky to stay on target. I have that heavy UTG over bore bipod or order along with A2 stock. 9.3 pounds without scope with A2 + filler should bring it to 13-14 pounds scoped.


Used up all my 53 vmax shot mostly HMR 69gr at 2800 fps. They shoot as good as Sierra MK at 1/2 the price. Wondering if shooting of a bipod away from those wood tables will improve things so I can see the shots at 24x. The precision of both guns is good enough for me. Hoping shooting off a bipod will improve the groups. Used 25.5gr of CFE 223 + 69gr

 

[jelenko]

Hoping shooting off a bipod will improve the groups

I think it depends on the bipod. Harris type ones tend to introduce their own variances - there's a learning curve to use them.

 

[David Milisock]

I took both the of Aero + EBCO 24" barrels to the range Sat. The all black on was a little over gased with Aero fixed .936 gas block the heavy JB buffer helped bring ejection to 3 oclock but it felt a little bit harser recoil vs the Tan one with Odin Adjustable gas block + 2.9oz standard carbine buffer.
I was not able to completely shut down the odins gas, it would not lock up but the bolt did come back some.
Adjusted it so 53gr rounds ejected at 3 oclock. It did feel a little softer.

Both guns shot well for a 10-20MPH gusty day. Benches are wood on wooden planks so when people walk near you you scope vibrates and makes it tricky to stay on target. I have that heavy UTG over bore bipod or order along with A2 stock. 9.3 pounds without scope with A2 + filler should bring it to 13-14 pounds scoped.

View attachment 1377475
Used up all my 53 vmax shot mostly HMR 69gr at 2800 fps. They shoot as good as Sierra MK at 1/2 the price. Wondering if shooting of a bipod away from those wood tables will improve things so I can see the shots at 24x. The precision of both guns is good enough for me. Hoping shooting off a bipod will improve the groups. Used 25.5gr of CFE 223 + 69gr

View attachment 1377476

Your conditions weren't field conditions but certainly not great bench conditions. In any case the groups are certainly not awful and even if not improved except for consistency nothing to cry about. The vertical EBCO string may make you wonder but in those bench conditions it's hard to tell.

My opinion is that with an AR 15 style rifle at 13 pounds scoped the greatest amount of recoil reduction from the point will be a good muzzle brake. I bought a complete Aero Precision upper in 6MM ARC and the rifle came with a brake, I think stand alone the brake costs around $100 and the recoil was less than my ARC15 A2 in 5.56, a great deal less, so I put brakes on all my autoloaders.

 

[troupe]

You already have the adjustable gas block. Lightweight buffer, light spring and a aluminum bolt carrier or a extremely light weight steel or titanium bolt carrier with 45 gr bullets. You really need a brake as well. Used this set up for steel matches many years ago. recoil feels like a 22 LR. Mind blowing with the right tune.

 

[BobbyJ]

I think it depends on the bipod. Harris type ones tend to introduce their own variances - there's a learning curve to use them.

Its a "Over Bore type" This guys reviews them and I noticed he still uses it over many others he has reviewed. Says its more stable due it balancing the barrel below and not above. but it can be used in either configuration.

 

[BobbyJ]

You already have the adjustable gas block. Lightweight buffer, light spring and a aluminum bolt carrier or a extremely light weight steel or titanium bolt carrier with 45 gr bullets. You really need a brake as well. Used this set up for steel matches many years ago. recoil feels like a 22 LR. Mind blowing with the right tune.

Yea a break would help for sure. My initial goal was just to see how well a AR shoots with a decent barrel. I've shot quite a few and seen reviews on the stadard Colt, Danial defense etc and none of them shoot like my bolts. Like 1.5-3.0 MOA range. Semi automatic with Sub MOA was something I had to see it myself to belive it. I'd heard people talk the talk but the guns never walked the walk. So far that goal has been achieved with the Aero + 1/9 EBCO barrels.

Not sure why pure varmint hunters prefer a match grade crown over a threaded barrel though. EBCO claims they improved the barrels by not threading them. Maybe it stresses the metals or introduces unwanted harmonics. What if I get them threaded and they come back shooting worse. So initially I'm not going to mess with that. I'd probably just buy a pre threaded barrel rather than pulling them mailing them out for that work.

A2 stock and weights + heavy bipod is next on the menu.

 

[BobbyJ]

Your conditions weren't field conditions but certainly not great bench conditions. In any case the groups are certainly not awful and even if not improved except for consistency nothing to cry about. The vertical EBCO string may make you wonder but in those bench conditions it's hard to tell.

My opinion is that with an AR 15 style rifle at 13 pounds scoped the greatest amount of recoil reduction from the point will be a good muzzle brake. I bought a complete Aero Precision upper in 6MM ARC and the rifle came with a brake, I think stand alone the brake costs around $100 and the recoil was less than my ARC15 A2 in 5.56, a great deal less, so I put brakes on all my autoloaders.

This is my first go with a varmint AR I may in the future get a Break or maybe a suppressor. The barrel company seemed to indicate better accuracy without a muzzle device so I started with that plus I did not want a 1/7 or 1/8 twist. Not many options in 1/9 1/10 in 1" for $290.

Yea the verticle string was most likely me and not the guns. They required a annoying break in. One shot then clean for x number of shots. So on one gun I was having to do that between shots vs just shooting off 3 or 5 rounds in succession. I find shooting a scoped AR more difficult with my Headset vs bolt action due the stock angle. Next time out I'll probably be on the ground w bipod not have to deal with vibrations in the tables. If someone walks 10 feet from you on the planks your table with wiggle along with the scope like +-1/2 inch and its mostly verticle.

 

[David Milisock]

This is my first go with a varmint AR I may in the future get a Break or maybe a suppressor. The barrel company seemed to indicate better accuracy without a muzzle device so I started with that plus I did not want a 1/7 or 1/8 twist. Not many options in 1/9 1/10 in 1" for $290.

Yea the verticle string was most likely me and not the guns. They required a annoying break in. One shot then clean for x number of shots. So on one gun I was having to do that between shots vs just shooting off 3 or 5 rounds in succession. I find shooting a scoped AR more difficult with my Headset vs bolt action due the stock angle. Next time out I'll probably be on the ground w bipod not have to deal with vibrations in the tables. If someone walks 10 feet from you on the planks your table with wiggle along with the scope like +-1/2 inch and its mostly verticle.

Your groups indicate good potential, just to relate my experience brakes had no effect on accuracy of any of my rifles. I hear that suppressors can improve accuracy but I have no experience. I would suggest that you don't get caught up in extreme expectations, you're certainly correct to work to get great accuracy however reall good accuracy which is what you have can only translate into really good field accuracy by practicing field shooting.

There's alot that goes into the developing the skill set of a great field rifleman. It starts with an accurate rifle tested on the bench, then proceeds into training for real world conditions. It's a huge deal learning how to stalk, take a solid firing position in a world filled with crap conditions, (heat, cold, rain, snow insects, snakes, wind and unstable rests) to mention a few, then really estimate range and make the hit on a target that may give you 10 to 20 seconds of opportunity.