Trying FFP

[AWS]

I'm basically a hunter, most of my shots are under 300 yards and most of my variables are SFP scopes. I like to.learn new things and would like to play with a FFP scope to learn what the fuss is about. I do have two FFP scopes, my old Balvar 8 and a Meopta 1.5-6 with German #1. Both are fine scopes but don't see the advantage as they don't dial.

Arken scopes are fairly reasonably priced with their 25% off sale right now. Would one on my HB 22-250AI be something I could learn with?

 

[SecondsCount]

The fuss is that if you like to use the holdovers in the scope reticle, and you don't want to worry about the reticle only being 1:1 with the zoom at a certain magnification, FFP is what you want.

 

[dstoenner]

Yes the Arken EP5 is a very good scope for the money. I have one and like it a lot. Mine is in moa not mil. I needed a scope to allow me to dial at least 100 moa to go to 1 mile.

The second post is exactly why ffp scopes are used. Use the ffp with a range finder and ballistic table then hold somewhere in the christmas tree as indicated by your ballistic program and the wind. Shooting unknown distances they shine

 

[6Creed73]

I was very impressed with the Arken EP5 when I got it recently. I took advantage of the 25% off to get an inexpensive scope for my AR and not worry about it getting knocked around a bit. But I like it so much, I took it off the AR and put it on a precision bolt gun.

As for FFP, for hunting it's much better than SFP at longer ranges. It will allow you to use the reticle for hold over in any magnification. I use the reticle vs dialing the scope as much as possible, it's faster and the reticle will be more accurate than dialing. Also, you will be able to range with a FFP scope.

 

[Bill Norris]

Last year a friend of mine was talking about getting the Arken 6 x 24 x 50 MOA every time we talked so I made a smart remark and said get one and if it is as good as you claim I will get one too. Well, he did and so did I. I went with the 5 x 25 x 56 MOA and realized it was as good or better in some ways then all my Leupolds. I wound up with 7 of them and my Son switched from Leupold to the same scope. Since then I have sold a few Arken to friends here locally and we are all happy with the scopes.

 

[CharlieNC]

I like FFP scopes and I like Arken scopes. If you will be limited to 300yd hunting then you stand little to gain switching to FFP as the drop and wind hold offs are not that significant, but advantageous. Weight the comparisons to develop realistic expectations so you can be satisfied with the outcome.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

I like FFP for 2 reasons. Most important is I can estimate range if I know the target size. I do this all the time hunting prairie dogs where my cheap LRF doesn't work on the flat prairie. The other is of course holding over. I don't dial when hunting, only targets.

I only like FFP for prairie dogs, rock chucks, and targets. I strongly prefer SFP for general hunting where most shots are fast at close range.

I had the arken 6-24x50. I hated it. Glass was mediocre and tiny eyebox. For budget scopes I strongly prefer Athlon midas tac or ares BTR. Infact even my 100 dollar athlon on my rimfire is impressive.

I have or had sightron siii, leupold vx3, various weavers, bushy 4200, vortex razor, tract toric, swfa, meopta, maven, i like tract and athlon the best.

 

[AWS]

This scope isn't for hunting or target shooting, it is to learn the ins and outs of using a FFP scope and see if it would ever be something I'd like to put into my repertoire. The Arken is inexpensive enough to learn with, good enough to recoupe my investment. My question is it good enough to learn with?

Neither of my FFP scopes have hash marks just tapered crosshairs in one and a post in the other so there is no hold over with either than an educated guess.

 

[SSL]

This scope isn't for hunting or target shooting, it is to learn the ins and outs of using a FFP scope and see if it would ever be something I'd like to put into my repertoire. The Arken is inexpensive enough to learn with, good enough to recoupe my investment. My question is it good enough to learn with?

Neither of my FFP scopes have hash marks just tapered crosshairs in one and a post in the other so there is no hold over with either than an educated guess.

Certainly not an expert, but not having hash marks or other indicators would seem to defeat the purpose of FFP.

 

[Knotwild]

It will probably take a lot of trigger time for you to get where you want to be. Like everything else, it's not easy if you don't practice enough to make using the reticle and doing the math second nature. And if you hunt in low light conditions, you might not be able to use the reticle. A "Mildot Master might help you along by streamlining the math side of things. And, it's not expensive. Mildot Master

 

[RabbitSlayer]

Yes, the arken will let you play with FFP. The reticle is decent and they track well. The image and eyebox just make it unpleasant if you are behind it all day. I had no problem selling mine. Think i paid around 350 and sold it for 300. Not much risk of you decide to sell later on.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I'm basically a hunter, most of my shots are under 300 yards and most of my variables are SFP scopes. I like to.learn new things and would like to play with a FFP scope to learn what the fuss is about. I do have two FFP scopes, my old Balvar 8 and a Meopta 1.5-6 with German #1. Both are fine scopes but don't see the advantage as they don't dial.

Arken scopes are fairly reasonably priced with their 25% off sale right now. Would one on my HB 22-250AI be something I could learn with?

Absolutely.
I have IPHY, MOA and MIL scopes.
When I got my first MIL scope, I figured it would take a bit of learning, but the honest truth is it felt like second nature within minutes.
With that said, if you're using a FFP optic, it really doesn't matter if you use MIL or MOA as long as the turrets match the reticle.
What does truly matter is that the turrets actually move the reticle the advertised amount.

The Arken scopes have been very, very good in this area.
I have five Arken scopes, and only one has any notable tracking error. Since it's on the windage turret, and only affects things if I dial more than 3 MIL, I don't care. I rarely ever dial windage because wind is a fickle thing and I would be going back and forth trying to get just the correct amount. The other reason is the error is less than a tenth of a MIL.

I think for the price with the 25% discount, it's a no Brainer.

I would also recommend downloading a ballistic app like Hornady 4DoF. It's free and you can play with it to your hearts content. It's super easy to learn and it works well.

 

[SKWERLZ]

For my typical shooting I definitely prefer FFP and mils

 

[Eagle Six]

I think the power range and specific reticle is more important than SFP vs FFP and MOA vs MRAD for practical application. Many of the Christmas tree reticles at lower power, for me, are close to worthless for using the subtensions as I can not easily read them. For that reason I need the power set up around 12-15 or greater. The reticles with more detail are messy at lower power and more precise at higher power. Actually looking through the scope is important to determine how your eye will deal with the specific reticle at those powers you most likely will use in application.

For most shooters they are either shooting known distances or using a mechanical or electronic ranging gizmo and have no interest in reticle ranging. Reticle ranging is never going to be more accurate than the typical electronic gizmo, unless of course the gizmo isn't working when you need it! But, as you are wanting to learn, it can be rewarding and reasonably accurate if you become good at estimating proportions and performing simple math. Accuracy will start with our ability to first find a subject/target, then closely estimate it's size. If that is not possible, we need an alternative such as a gizmo or be good at estimating distance by football fields!

Hold overs/unders and windage are most often the best advantage for most shooters and we can do that with SFP or FFP scopes provided the reticle has the appropriate subtensions. I've never owned an Arken, but from what I have read and shooters I have talked to, they seem to be more than adequate for your adventure. As others have noted the big advantage of the FFP is the subtensions are applicable at any power where the SFP is only useable at whatever power the manufacturer has determined and if we range at that power we can learn ranging and Holds with a SFP.

As for 1/4 MOA vs tenth Mil, there isn't a lot of difference, they both require some math for ranging, we get to pick our poison. I have always used MRAD/Mils and recently switched to MOA. For me neither seems to have advantage over the other for civilian shooters.

I hope you will update with your progress during your quest to learn.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

I think the power range and specific reticle is more important than SFP vs FFP and MOA vs MRAD for practical application. Many of the Christmas tree reticles at lower power, for me, are close to worthless for using the subtensions as I can not easily read them. For that reason I need the power set up around 12-15 or greater. The reticles with more detail are messy at lower power and more precise at higher power. Actually looking through the scope is important to determine how your eye will deal with the specific reticle at those powers you most likely will use in application.

For most shooters they are either shooting known distances or using a mechanical or electronic ranging gizmo and have no interest in reticle ranging. Reticle ranging is never going to be more accurate than the typical electronic gizmo, unless of course the gizmo isn't working when you need it! But, as you are wanting to learn, it can be rewarding and reasonably accurate if you become good at estimating proportions and performing simple math. Accuracy will start with our ability to first find a subject/target, then closely estimate it's size. If that is not possible, we need an alternative such as a gizmo or be good at estimating distance by football fields!

Hold overs/unders and windage are most often the best advantage for most shooters and we can do that with SFP or FFP scopes provided the reticle has the appropriate subtensions. I've never owned an Arken, but from what I have read and shooters I have talked to, they seem to be more than adequate for your adventure. As others have noted the big advantage of the FFP is the subtensions are applicable at any power where the SFP is only useable at whatever power the manufacturer has determined and if we range at that power we can learn ranging and Holds with a SFP.

As for 1/4 MOA vs tenth Mil, there isn't a lot of difference, they both require some math for ranging, we get to pick our poison. I have always used MRAD/Mils and recently switched to MOA. For me neither seems to have advantage over the other for civilian shooters.

I hope you will update with your progress during your quest to learn.

I agree the reticles are just about useless on the lower power. The hashes are too small to use. At best, you can sort of see like a thin duplex till 10x. Maybe this is better on low power scopes. All my FFP are 20x or more. Although, if you are taking a shot at low power, its probably not far enough to need much if any hold over with a flat shooting cartridge.

 

[Zero333]

I prefer 2nd focal scopes with BDC for hunting within 400 yards.

For LR and Range guns I prefer FFP.

 

[SecondsCount]

As a response to those complaining about the FFP shrinking to where you cannot read it at low power settings. This is an issue but let me provide a bigger issue- how many times have you missed a target because you were using your reticle for holdovers and you didn't have the zoom correct on your SFP scope?

You have to have the SFP scope set for a higher magnification anyways to be 1:1, where an FFP scope allows for turning down the magnification, even if not all the way, and still use the reticle.

 

[Eagle Six]

As a response to those complaining about the FFP shrinking to where you cannot read it at low power settings. This is an issue but let me provide a bigger issue- how many times have you missed a target because you were using your reticle for holdovers and you didn't have the zoom correct on your SFP scope?

You have to have the SFP scope set for a higher magnification anyways to be 1:1, where an FFP scope allows for turning down the magnification, even if not all the way, and still use the reticle.

You make a valid point, To answer you question for me, never. But that was because I was groomed on a fix 10 power mildot and later fixed my 3.5x10x40 mildot on 10 power. For those that do adjust their power on a SFP your point should be well taken.

 

[6Creed73]

As a response to those complaining about the FFP shrinking to where you cannot read it at low power settings. This is an issue but let me provide a bigger issue- how many times have you missed a target because you were using your reticle for holdovers and you didn't have the zoom correct on your SFP scope?

You have to have the SFP scope set for a higher magnification anyways to be 1:1, where an FFP scope allows for turning down the magnification, even if not all the way, and still use the reticle.

I agree, with my FFP scopes I'm never on the lowest magnification anyways, so it's not an issue for me. An illuminated reticle also helps with seeing the hold overs on the lower magnification settings.

I use SFP scopes when I'm bench shooting, and I like my SFP scopes too...but much prefer FFP for PRS.

 

[DRK]

I have a Leica ER 4-20×50 SFP on my 6 TCU with the ballisitc reticle. I have a Minox ZP5 5-25×56 FFP MR4 Christmas tree reticle on my 6x47L. Only two scoped rifles I own at the moment.

My experience is strictly hunting wood chucks & varmints, I don't play any of the gun games. The Minox is my first FFP scope & it is in mils. Took a bit of a learning curve to transition to mils, now I like mils better than MOA. What I like about the FFP scope is there is no dialing, there is no guess work. Go up to a power you can see at, put the corresponding hash mark on the target, squeeze, bang, dead. This is important when a wood chuck pops up from his hole, stands up in the beans, etc.

I took an electrcian's Brady labeler and put the yardage with the hash marks on the side of the stock below the scope. Verified muzzle velocity w/chrono and ran the numbers on a ballisitic calculator.