Trued Rem 700 vs Custom Actions

[Sniper338]

Does anyone have any test results to show the difference between group sizes from a trued action vs custom?

Just by reading all the comments I’m guessing the results are pretty close.

Thats what Im gathering as well.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Does anyone have any test results to show the difference between group sizes from a trued action vs custom?

Just by reading all the comments I’m guessing the results are pretty close.

Theres so much more to what makes an action accurate than just 'truing' up the faces and abutments.

 

[1shot]

Lloyd,
I am not challenging your statement here, just trying to learn as I have a trued 700 on my FTR rifle. Shoots pretty darn good although I have never fired a custom action rifle.
Question regarding your statement above. Let's say you have already had your 700 factory action tuned and trued, custom Benchmark barrel, Timney trigger, XLR chassis (yes this is mine). If I were to replace the action on my rifle with a Bat or Bordon or some similar custom action. What difference in performance could one expect? I mean, would one expect it to be a noticeable difference on the paper?
Looking at it from my point of view. I have had to develop the rifle over two years, primarily due to lack of funds, doing a little at a time. If I purchased a custom action that would run about $1300. I could sell my action for maybe $300 (rounding here). Then I would most likely have to have my barrel matched to the new action at a cost of $300. So for lets say a net of $1300 (assuming everything else would work with the custom action) would I really see that much of a difference on paper?
I ask because I am contemplating this for the hopefully not so distant future.

@Papa Charlie,

In answer to you question about performance alone, probably very little. With that said, and others have stated the smoothness of the bolt travel the overall feel of precision far outweighs the difference in cost to me. Rest assured I can be as frugal as the next guy but I will lay my money down for quality.
Another thing is customer service after the sale. Any of the big name companies and will bend over backwards to make it right. You won't get that with a re-worked Remmie.
Lastly, if you are budget minded, instead of spending $1,300.00 as you stated, spend $900.00 for a Kelbly Atlas and go to work. I know I talk a lot about Kelbly's, but they have been my first and only choice for 16 years, and with good reason. Products that are on par or exceeds anything in the industry, and customer service that is second to none. The fact that it's 60 miles from home doesn't hurt any either.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

 

[284winner]

These new SS actions they are selling on Budguns for $400 are not the same as a Walmart Remington. They are wayyyyyy better. I think they are 40x actions. They have the holes for the sights.

My gunsmith made 60 rifles for one guy last year. Most were the Stiller action. He said that there was no difference in the amount of cleanup required between the new SS 40x Remingtons from Budsguns than a Stiller. Both required almost none.

I many have to just go with the Atlas for the next build. I like the pinned lug, bolt handle, scope rail, etc etc and by the time you do all that you might as well buy an Atlas. I do have a soft spot for the custom shop 40x with the polished blue, I just like them

Clean up ??? I would hope a Stiller action WOULDN'T require any clean up. What's the point in purchasing a custom action. Isn't that what everyone's trying to say on all these " Factory vs custom" action Posts ?

 

[urbanrifleman]

Clean up ??? I would hope a Stiller action WOULDN'T require any clean up. What's the point in purchasing a custom action. Isn't that what everyone's trying to say on all these " Factory vs custom" action Posts ?

That was my point.

 

[Boisblancboy]

Theres so much more to what makes an action accurate than just 'truing' up the faces and abutments.

True, but that’s not the question.

 

[284winner]

That was my point.

Almost none isn't NONE.

 

[284winner]

IMO...if 10.00 worth of cleaning up a "New Custom" action is required, then these "Which Is better " posts on custom vs factory are all hot air. The whole point is customs are all cleaned up during the custom process. Add on's are entirely different than cleaning up an inconsistency issue on an action. I think this is where this Thread needs to end. Speculation vs fact doesn't belong in this Thread. Customs do not need anything but a trigger, barrel and stock...period. Factory actions leave something to be desired regarding trueing and consistency. All my factory actions out shoot me and I am a factory action guy. I do get Remingtons trued and "cleaned up". I do not sell my finished guns. Customs are a better version however

 

[Beau]

I'll take a custom action over a trued action just because I'll know the barrel shank is a standard size.

 

[urbanrifleman]

True, but that’s not the question.

Yes, and here is where I say that if we are talking about "extensive mods" or "basic truing".

To say that pinning the lug, adding a bolt stop, threading the bolt, or sleeving the action are "basic" to get the action up to speed is not really fair to a Remington action. You really don't need any of those things. My buddy Terry is on here and he just built a new rifle from the Budsgun's 40x SS single shot and is simply BADDASS and he didn't touch a thing (it's bone stock). He even made the stock himslef out of an old 40x military stock. It is already shooting under .25 moa a lot, and that is with a CBI nut barrel off the shelf.

 

[urbanrifleman]

IMO...if 10.00 worth of cleaning up a "New Custom" action is required, then these "Which Is better " posts on custom vs factory are all hot air. The whole point is customs are all cleaned up during the custom process. Add on's are entirely different than cleaning up an inconsistency issue on an action. I think this is where this Thread needs to end. Speculation vs fact doesn't belong in this Thread. Customs do not need anything but a trigger, barrel and stock...period. Factory actions leave something to be desired regarding trueing and consistency. All my factory actions out shoot me and I am a factory action guy. I do get Remingtons trued and "cleaned up". I do not sell my finished guns. Customs are a better version however

Many of the smiths here do extensive tuning to their custom actions. You hear the word "perfect" being thrown around. Like "Mr. Borden made it good, but I make them perfect". I guess that's a real thing, I honestly do not know. I really doubt there are many guys that gunsmith that can machine better than Mr. Borden, but that's what they say!!

I know Alex Wheeler tunes them to do magic

 

[jamesh]

IMO...if 10.00 worth of cleaning up a "New Custom" action is required, then these "Which Is better " posts on custom vs factory are all hot air. The whole point is customs are all cleaned up during the custom process. Add on's are entirely different than cleaning up an inconsistency issue on an action. I think this is where this Thread needs to end. Speculation vs fact doesn't belong in this Thread. Customs do not need anything but a trigger, barrel and stock...period. Factory actions leave something to be desired regarding trueing and consistency. All my factory actions out shoot me and I am a factory action guy. I do get Remingtons trued and "cleaned up". I do not sell my finished guns. Customs are a better version however

Unfortunately not all custom actions come out any better than a factory Remington action. A couple years ago I received a new custom dual port action from one of the top custom action manufacturers mentioned in this thread and only one of the bolt lugs had any contact with the receiver abutment. I sent it back and they lapped it in but had I not checked it I wouldn't have known that only one lug was making contact.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Simply speaking in terms of value, Mausers and Springfields use to be the most desirable actions to build on. Then came the Remington and now we are blessed to have a good number of quality custom actions available. Custom Mausers and Springfields have generally gone the way of the dodo bird. The resale value for either just doesn't make spending much money on action work financially feasible. IMO, custom Remingtons are headed the same way. In a short while, you won't be able to give them away, much less break even...it's already this way for the most part.
We are free to spend our money the way we choose and your smith will be glad to help you spend it. We make more money truing your Remington than we do on a new custom action.

If you come into my shop, I feel it is my responsibility to explain this to my customer...one time, but not to argue about it beyond that. Many are dead set on the logic of building a Remington, usually because they already have it and feel like they are saving money to use what they already have vs selling it and putting that money toward a custom. At that point, I just say yes sir and no sir.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Right, I spoke with a member here about reworking my Remington he turned it down as it wasnt a custom action.
Made me think ....
"What is my money not green enough for you?"
And now to hear that they have to rework or adjust a custom, that pretty much gets us down to resale value.
If you sell guns that is.

The original owner may never sell guns and not care at all about value. But somebody, sometime down the line, be it his children or great grand nephew twice removed, will.

I'm not much of a gun collector but my general rule has always been to buy high quality, low production guns, as I feel that to be where the best return will be seen, eventually. That epitomizes the small, custom action makers we have today, IMHO.

 

[Milo 2.0]

If you sell guns that is.

We all make predictions of what we dill do in the future. I used to say the same, never sell, then one day I opened a safe and said to myself "wtf are you doing with this crap"

 

[Milo 2.0]

The original owner may never sell guns and not care at all about value. But somebody, sometime down the line, be it his children or great grand nephew twice removed, will.

I'm not much of a gun collector but my general rule has always been to buy high quality, low production guns, as I feel that to be where the best return will be seen, eventually. That epitomizes the small, custom action makers we have today, IMHO.

Two well spoken posts in a row.
Last yr close to this time I tried to sell 2 custom actions, one popular, one high dollar boutique as I call them. It just happened to coincide with both companies unveiling of their new "budgie" offerings. I got spanked hard on them, one guy asked me why he should pay my reduced price when he could buy a new budgie for less. There was no reason for a sales pitch by then.

 

[300_whisper]

I got spanked hard on them, one guy asked me why he should pay my reduced price when he could buy a new budgie for less. There was no reason for a sales pitch by then.

It pisses me off when bros do that. Why are we talking then if you already got it figured out?

 

[urbanrifleman]

My buddy built this totally kick ass bench gun from a Budguns 40x. It's a work of art.

 

[Milo 2.0]

It pisses me off when bros do that. Why are we talking then if you already got it figured out?

I didn't take it as though he did something wrong in that case. We all have opinions. When I list an item, I'm done with it and I price to move it. I have more of a problem when I get jewed on, I've checked prices, my crap is well below that.

 

[gtl1946]

The sooner we get through our heads that we don’t own things but rather are just care takers . Everything WILL be sold at some point. The best quality in the best shape is the best to buy because it is the easiest to sell and get your money back at worst or more than likely make money. I am at the point in my life where either I can sell off the “herd” or leave it to those who have no interest in them or keep asking me what they are worth. They are worth whatever you can get for them!!
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