Trapdoor Reloading - What's the trend?

[257Roberts]

Curious what folks are reloading with for Springfield Trapdoors and Sharps rifles these days?
I have some brass, dies, 405gr shooters choice hard cast, primers, etc.

• What smokeless powders? Black powder?
• Do folks still use a case filler of some sort with smokeless powders?
  
  Back up 20+ years ago and I bought a Taylors & Co./Armisport Sharps 1874. I did reload for it a little bit, I want to say I used 4198 of some sort, and either polyfill batting or corn cob media to fill the dead space. I remember the whole process being a pain in the butt, and ended up shooting green box Remington factory ammo, for what little I shot it. Bought a couple trapdoors a short time later, but only ever shot factory black hills cowboy ammo. Both those trapdoors are gone, but I bought another one recently.

I'm not stuck on traditional, and not opposed to black powder, I've just never dealt with it. I have a Lyman 55 hand thrower, but not sure that would work. When I look at smokeless load books for trapdoor safe loads, I worry that most all of them are fast, even at starting loads. Were not the original factory black powder cartridges like 1300fps? Is 1400-1700fps range safe in a trapdoor? That's where a majority of load data is listed at.

The majority of my shooting will be range plinking, but I'm also not opposed someday to shooting a whitetail or even a ranch buffalo someday down the road.

Any and all comments greatly appreciated. Looking to come up with a recipe fairly soon as my dad is breathing down my neck to shoot this "new" gun. HaHA Thanks everyone.

 

[gpoldblue]

Curious what folks are reloading with for Springfield Trapdoors and Sharps rifles these days?
I have some brass, dies, 405gr shooters choice hard cast, primers, etc.

• What smokeless powders? Black powder?
• Do folks still use a case filler of some sort with smokeless powders?
  
  Back up 20+ years ago and I bought a Taylors & Co./Armisport Sharps 1874. I did reload for it a little bit, I want to say I used 4198 of some sort, and either polyfill batting or corn cob media to fill the dead space. I remember the whole process being a pain in the butt, and ended up shooting green box Remington factory ammo, for what little I shot it. Bought a couple trapdoors a short time later, but only ever shot factory black hills cowboy ammo. Both those trapdoors are gone, but I bought another one recently.

I'm not stuck on traditional, and not opposed to black powder, I've just never dealt with it. I have a Lyman 55 hand thrower, but not sure that would work. When I look at smokeless load books for trapdoor safe loads, I worry that most all of them are fast, even at starting loads. Were not the original factory black powder cartridges like 1300fps? Is 1400-1700fps range safe in a trapdoor? That's where a majority of load data is listed at.

The majority of my shooting will be range plinking, but I'm also not opposed someday to shooting a whitetail or even a ranch buffalo someday down the road.

Any and all comments greatly appreciated. Looking to come up with a recipe fairly soon as my dad is breathing down my neck to shoot this "new" gun. HaHA Thanks everyone.

Remember the original Sprinfield Trapdoors were very mild steel and they used pure lead bullets. Modern Trapdoors use much higher quality steels can tolerate a little higher pressures. People I know that shoot Trapdoors and even Shiloh & C.Sharps Arms especially for target shooting load to +/- 1050fps with bullet alloy of 20:1 and blackpowder. I have a C. Sharps Arms 1874 in .45/110...I do not use fillers...don't need 'em. Also,I 20:1 alloy didn't work satisfactorily...had to go a little bit harder.
Accurate Arms 5744 is a very good smokeless alternative. I would be a little concerned about hard cast and jacketed bullets at speeds and pressures shown in todays manuals and certainly not in original Springfields which had weak actions.
Goos luck and stay safe.

 

[TIMO]

Also,
You will find that original trapdoor bores can run on the larger size of .458 , a hollow bade cast bullet may give you better accuracy than other cast bullets.
Keep us updated and post some pics.
Tim

 

[DirtySteve]

For Sharps I run Swiss 1.5F and a 500 grain paper patched bullet. I am experimenting with a 535 grain money bullet also paper patched. I think it is having stability issues as the load falls apart at 900 and is woefully inadequate at 1000.

 

[Kalitrazescapee]

I have a TD and load both bp and smokeless.37gr of 3031 and have an old ideal semi spritzer mold I use for td and roller,until I use up the 405s w50gr 3031 for the 86 Browning,no reason to load that hot. With the cost of primers I may machine a few cases for .45-70___.45colt and fit for 209shotgun primers and black powder loads. When I'm using black I've used fff goex. 4198 and varget are useable,varget was listed in handloader getting 1700 fps or so in td rifle at safe pressure. I always use lead,and jacketed are factory used in modern 1886.
They used to load guard loads, multiple rb when guarding prisoners.

 

[JumboSammich]

Lyman reloading manuals have data for the trapdoors and even have data in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. I have the stuff to reload just haven't had the time.

 

[Just Say Moe]

I use IMR3031 with 405 and 500 grain bullets in my 1884. I have some H4198 I'm going to try next. As said above, the Lyman book has a lot of data. No way will black powder ever see my rifle.....

 

[snert]

I am following this thread because I have an 1884 TD and just ran down to the last 4 factory Rem 405's I have left. At $1.50 -$1.75 each, no way I am trying to buy more. I have in the past loaded 300 gr Sie over 4198 and 4227 to about 1400 FPS but really dont trust it to cleanly take a Whitetail, so I am very open to learning to load some 380-400 grain lead bullets (commercial cause I don't cast) over some smokeless that will open up and expand. I am very open to someone guiding me on this one...

 

[gpoldblue]

I am following this thread because I have an 1884 TD and just ran down to the last 4 factory Rem 405's I have left. At $1.50 -$1.75 each, no way I am trying to buy more. I have in the past loaded 300 gr Sie over 4198 and 4227 to about 1400 FPS but really dont trust it to cleanly take a Whitetail, so I am very open to learning to load some 380-400 grain lead bullets (commercial cause I don't cast) over some smokeless that will open up and expand. I am very open to someone guiding me on this one...

The .45/70 killed A LOT of American buffalo. People kill deer,bear,and hogs with .44 mag's with 300gr bullets.
You must have some hellacious whitetails. Bullet placement is the key. Good luck and stay safe.

 

[rockhound78]

I load a 420gr bullet cast of wheelweights and water quenched. Size them to .461" as my Trapdoor runs .460" (have heard some run to .463"). TI use 4759, .060" card wad on top of the powder, then fill with grits so when a bullet is seated, the grits get compressed about 1/8". I have shot the same load but without the card wad and grits, but groups run about an inch more at 100yds. Since you probably can't find 4759 anymore, I would lean towards 5744 or Shooters world Buffalo rifle (same difference).
I shoot the same load in my Pedersoli Sharps 1874

 

[c3d4b2]

Here is a book that was recommended. Have been glad I picked it up.

https://the4570book.com/shop/ols/pr...-original-45-70-springfield-rifle-and-carbine

 

[snert]

The .45/70 killed A LOT of American buffalo. People kill deer,bear,and hogs with .44 mag's with 300gr bullets.
You must have some hellacious whitetails. Bullet placement is the key. Good luck and stay safe.

I only say this because of the two whitetail I hit (both rib cage) the bullets were recovered and they really didn't open up at all. Both deer went a ways. Maybe just me, but it seemed anemic. I know, I know, it doesn't add up, but it just caused me some consternation. (the 45-70 was trapdoor velocity in a rifle)
I shoot handgun for whitetail in 357 Herrett. Not a super fast cartridge. 180 grain Sp at about 1700 FPS. Ive never has a deer fail to die fast. Given the diffeence of 300 fps I just thought the 45 compared to the 35 would work as well. It just flat didnt. But I am well open to learning! Thus I am all ears about getting this TD to be a deer schwacker.

 

[snert]

Here is a book that was recommended. Have been glad I picked it up.

https://the4570book.com/shop/ols/pr...-original-45-70-springfield-rifle-and-carbine

Just ordered it.

 

[Kalitrazescapee]

Fwiw, I've used my browning 86 with Lyman flat nose flat base to kill blacktail and one bear. Wheel weight quenched , unsized and 28 GR of 4759. I never found a bullet,be in neck,back or shoulders. Just shoot for bone,you will cut about half inch around the bullet hole. Bear was thru head at about 50yds in the oaks,eye to ear. For those who don't cast,I do,and could cast some,but everyone has their preferred alloy and td s do run oversize.one can use soft lead and hollow base.
One thing to consider, a hollow base works better in a slow twist, which is why Minnie's were hb in muskets. Bullet lube....allox,Lyman,lee,rcbs,and spg which is the one buffalo arms sells.

 

[257Roberts]

Where do folks get custom lead bullets? I don't cast my own, nor do I plan to. Just have too many other irons in the fire to get interested in that.

All I have at the moment are .458 hard cast. Hypothetically, if my bore is .459, where would I order some .460 bullets?

Thanks

 

[snert]

I too have questions: I am an experience loader, but never lead and never BP.

So...if one were to develop a TD load using a 385 grain hollow BASE bullet:

1) If using smokeless, do you need filler, Do you need lube in the grooves?
2) If using BP or Pyrodex, do you measure the load by weight or volume, and what lube is necessary?
3) With BP do you need a filler or a card
4) What primer for BP?

I do not have a lYman book...but I ordered the 45-70 book recommended earlier in this thread...in the mail.

 

[clowdis]

The Trapdoor system is probably the weakest of all the breechloader actions. I think I'd stick with black powder loads for it like it was designed. Sharps on the other hand is a pretty strong action.