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To Turn Necks or Not ?

My point is if you can shoot so good with a no turn and it isn't perfect with in a .0001 why do you worry about turning with in a .0001?... jim
 
BartsBullets said:
Jimmy

No I haven’t but not because I don’t think it would work, but it would be a giant pain in the butt! All of my very custom stuff like bullet seater and Full length die would have to be re-done.

Also several of us are on the “Program” where we use the same reamer, bullets, powders! So at a match several of us are working to figure out the tune and what seating depth is working. Kind of a Wolf pack! Or Hunter Killer Team. So it’s hard to get off the reservation!

Bart
Click to expand...

Thanks Bart. Appreciate it. I'm hoping to get the neighbor on the "Program" for the reasons you listed. We'd have a better shot of figuring out some of this stuff together than apart.
 
BartsBullets said:
Paul,

If I was leaving anything on the table I’d do it. 5 years ago if you asked this same question I would have said without a doubt you must turn necks, but shooting and test has shown me otherwise. Not to sound arrogant but I’m one of the very few people on this board that can shoot the difference testing at 100/200 yards.

I have proven to myself that I’m not leaving anything on the table. But to each their own. I’m not saying not to turn necks, I’ve just found it’s not necessary, if you have enough clearance. But that’s just a hard concept to accept, kind of counter intuitive!

To turn or not to turn? It’s a personal choice and I support both.

Bart
Click to expand...


If you would've had 100% trust in your bullets, tune, and BRASS, maybe you'd have chased that last sighter you were asking about LAST WEEK and not have screwed the pooch. :D:D

Tom
 
johara1 said:
Ok, I am trying to understand the no turn thing,Do you guys sort the cases to get the most uniform or do you just load them right out of the box? then as much as dimensions change with Lapua what do you do then? I have had lot of brass from Lapua be over .003 different in neck thickness ...... this is one reason I turn necks..... jim
Click to expand...
Jim, I have never had any lot of Lapua brass vary .003 in the neck. Most is within .001, I have an old lot now that varies less than .0005. Now if I had a lot like you are talking about that varies .003, I would first try to get rid of it, if not, I would definitely turn the necks of that lot. I have seen over the years Lapua 6BR brass vary alot in neck thickness. Alot of people remember when they went from the cardboard boxes to the new plastic blue boxes. The loaded round neck thickness went from about .2695-.2700in the old cardboard box to about .2665 to .2670 in the plastic blue box. Now the necks are pretty close to what they use to be, .2695. When the new blue box stuff came out everyone was afraid it would not shoot with the old card board box stuff. One of the best no turn 6BR shooters we had at 600 yards, Chad Jenkins, said he just used a smaller neck bushing and it shoot just as good as the old stuff. Some people even had a special reamer made for the new brass with a .2704 neck. Chad still used his .272 neck and it shot great. Chad had some 600 yard records, but probably not Nationally known. He as good as they get when he shoots though. I definitely trusted what he said. I know there are ALOT of outstanding records and Nationals ( at 600 yards) that have been shot with no turn standard 6BR’s or the various Improves. I have been beat enough by no turns back when I was turning necks to figure I was wasting my time turning. That is when I tested and shot both and saw 1st hand it was unnecessary (to me anyway).
Bart and other long time short range shooters will probably remember when guys would not shoot an ejector. Probably up til about 1990. The theory was the ejector cocked the round/bullet unevenly to one side of the chamber. So, in theory the bullet starts out crooked in the throat. It makes since to me! It cant be as accurate like that can it! Lol. I think we can say safely that theory has been debunked. Samuel Hall
 
tom said:
If you would've had 100% trust in your bullets, tune, and BRASS, maybe you'd have chased that last sighter you were asking about LAST WEEK and not have screwed the pooch. :D:D

Tom
Click to expand...

OH Tom-Tom! Complete trust in every thing but the conditions. Just thought it was an anomaly that if I waited it would be gone!
Same thing happened to Steve Wilson. Last sighter went high Steve said it’s a puff of wind and didn’t chase it. He got a 50! You take your chances and hope it works out! If not you take your lumps!

Headed to Piedmont this weekend! Shot like a Tom-tard there last time! Going back for some redemption! Hopefully things will go better this time!

Bart
 
johara1 said:
My point is if you can shoot so good with a no turn and it isn't perfect with in a .0001 why do you worry about turning with in a .0001?... jim
Click to expand...
Jim, I have never shot a no turn in BR. I can hold .0001 +/- so thats what I do. If I really wanted to not turn my necks Id do like Sam did and test it out at 1k with the worst of my cases vs the best turned stuff and see for myself.
 
Last edited:
HUNTER3401 said:
Jim, I have never had any lot of Lapua brass vary .003 in the neck. Most is within .001, I have an old lot now that varies less than .0005. Now if I had a lot like you are talking about that varies .003, I would first try to get rid of it, if not, I would definitely turn the necks of that lot. I have seen over the years Lapua 6BR brass vary alot in neck thickness. Alot of people remember when they went from the cardboard boxes to the new plastic blue boxes. The loaded round neck thickness went from about .2695-.2700in the old cardboard box to about .2665 to .2670 in the plastic blue box. Now the necks are pretty close to what they use to be, .2695. When the new blue box stuff came out everyone was afraid it would not shoot with the old card board box stuff. One of the best no turn 6BR shooters we had at 600 yards, Chad Jenkins, said he just used a smaller neck bushing and it shoot just as good as the old stuff. Some people even had a special reamer made for the new brass with a .2704 neck. Chad still used his .272 neck and it shot great. Chad had some 600 yard records, but probably not Nationally known. He as good as they get when he shoots though. I definitely trusted what he said. I know there are ALOT of outstanding records and Nationals ( at 600 yards) that have been shot with no turn standard 6BR’s or the various Improves. I have been beat enough by no turns back when I was turning necks to figure I was wasting my time turning. That is when I tested and shot both and saw 1st hand it was unnecessary (to me anyway).
Bart and other long time short range shooters will probably remember when guys would not shoot an ejector. Probably up til about 1990. The theory was the ejector cocked the round/bullet unevenly to one side of the chamber. So, in theory the bullet starts out crooked in the throat. It makes since to me! It cant be as accurate like that can it! Lol. I think we can say safely that theory has been debunked. Samuel Hall
Click to expand...

Sam,

Let’s see the ejector was one!
JB would ruin your barrel.
Full length sizing was crazy! It would never work!

Bart
 
I love this board, got giants of the benchrest world explaining theory, but folks still confident enough to argue their point. That's great.
Me myself, I'll listen when my fellow Tarheel speaks, especially a Mountain boy.:cool:
Bart as well, as I don't believe he has a damn thing to prove to anyone. I'm just a guy that dabbles in the sport, shoots varmints, and can hold my own with the best at my club. Good enough for me.:D
May get to Hawksridge sometime this summer Sam, shop is open on Saturday eo kinda hard to do. I have 2 no turn BR's that are amazing.
 
johara1 said:
When you guys are testing for group size does anyone check the build up in the flash holes?..... jim
Click to expand...
Jim, I dont check how much build up in the flash hole, I just run a .059 drill bit in by hand to clean any reside. I have used a .0625 dia. Sinclair flash hole uniformed tool also. It actually opens up the flash hole a couple or 3 thou. Then I used it after each firing to clean residue. Either way worked the same for me. The drill bit is just cheaper and quicker to use.
Bart, I forgot about when Full Length Sizing was crazy to even think about doing unless it was for hunting ammo. No benchrest shooter even owned one for their PPC. I dont think they even made them they thought it was so crazy. Neck size only was the only way for pure accuracy. When the round got to tight to chamber, in the trash can it went.
 
WOW! That’s impressive, great to see.. More and more convincing every year my hat goes of to these guys...The bar is set even higher!!!!!
 
HUNTER3401 said:
Jim, I dont check how much build up in the flash hole, I just run a .059 drill bit in by hand to clean any reside. I have used a .0625 dia. Sinclair flash hole uniformed tool also. It actually opens up the flash hole a couple or 3 thou. Then I used it after each firing to clean residue. Either way worked the same for me. The drill bit is just cheaper and quicker to use.
Bart, I forgot about when Full Length Sizing was crazy to even think about doing unless it was for hunting ammo. No benchrest shooter even owned one for their PPC. I dont think they even made them they thought it was so crazy. Neck size only was the only way for pure accuracy. When the round got to tight to chamber, in the trash can it went.
Click to expand...

Sam, I use The K&M tool and the rod is .059 and I noticed it dragging on some flash hole and and would not go in some . I do use a a .0625 reamer to make them a little more uniform and now I use it every time with the BR. IMP. I seem to get a little build up with H4895 and with RL-15 in the Dasher. Looks like carbon and when use the reamer to clean it out and bore scope it it is carbon build up..... Now cleaning flash holes it is part of the brass prep.... jim
 
johara1 said:
Bart, One more was you throw by volume was better than weighing powder. 2013 Super Shoot they were laughing about annealing.... jim
Click to expand...
Jim,

You’re right! Now there’s a lot more cross over. When Billy Stevens and I started annealing PPC brass at matches. Annealing started catching on with short range guys. I was the first guy to show up at short range match with 120i A&D with autotrickler. Now several short range guys use them (full blown with auto dumper) most have a charge master. Very few use a powder throw alone. I was the first one on the line with a labradar (short and 600) and now the line is covered up them.

Bart
 
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