To anneal or not to anneal, that is the question.

[Paula Marie Hamilton]

I know we have a reloading question area, but I was reading there questions, and suddenly I thought I was back in HS French class, and I hadn't studied. My son got his first reloader (Lee), for his birthday. We were talking about annealing and if he was going to do it. I had a 10 min chemistry class on the properties of brass John said he thought it was a good idea, but couldn't afford an annealer, and wondered if the torch method would work. So guys do you anneal, why or why not, and how do you get an even heat with a torch, the only thing we have to do the job. Thanks.

Paula

 

[Ranger007]

Hasn’t this horse been beaten to death yet?

 

[Twicepop]

I know we have a reloading question area, but I was reading there questions, and suddenly I thought I was back in HS French class, and I hadn't studied. My son got his first reloader (Lee), for his birthday. We were talking about annealing and if he was going to do it. I had a 10 min chemistry class on the properties of brass John said he thought it was a good idea, but couldn't afford an annealer, and wondered if the torch method would work. So guys do you anneal, why or why not, and how do you get an even heat with a torch, the only thing we have to do the job. Thanks.

Paula

I have a dodad, a gizmo, a device that uses a single torch and applies the flame pretty much equally around the cases. It's a length of small copper tube bent into a circle closed off at one end and fitting at the other to allow it to be attached to a propane torch. The inside of the circle has (think it's eight) holes that are more or less equally spaced to allow the flame to be directed towards where the center of the circle would be. The directions said to stand the cases in water up to about half of their length. It also said to bring the flame down to the shoulder/neck junction and when the area being heated turned a dull brown, knock the cases over in the water to quench. I know this will start the "debate" over quench/don't quench again, but I'm merely repeating what the directions said to do. I got the from Todd Kindler's Woodchuck Den several years ago.

 

[Chiquita]

Anneal!! There are many inexpensive annealers out there, there are multiple ways of doing it properly,
I made my own and it cost me about $125 and my time. You can buy one from $300 up to $1500

It does not hurt it if you do anneal and from what I have learned it "may" hurt the brass, you reloading process and the accuracy of shot placement if you don't anneal. . Now, what you describe as accuracy and "hurting the process" is subject to personal opinion.

As far as me and my process, I anneal.

 

[Chiquita]

Hasn’t this horse been beaten to death yet?

View attachment 1228239

Well, the horse is alive and well for the new crew that is entering the arena of the reloading. I am sure they will have a dead horse on their hands pretty soon and the cycle shall continue.

 

[Ranger007]

Well, the horse is alive and well for the new crew that is entering the arena of the reloading. I am sure they will have a dead horse on their hands pretty soon and the cycle shall continue.

You are 100% CORRECT!

 

[Ranger007]

I know we have a reloading question area, but I was reading there questions, and suddenly I thought I was back in HS French class, and I hadn't studied. My son got his first reloader (Lee), for his birthday. We were talking about annealing and if he was going to do it. I had a 10 min chemistry class on the properties of brass John said he thought it was a good idea, but couldn't afford an annealer, and wondered if the torch method would work. So guys do you anneal, why or why not, and how do you get an even heat with a torch, the only thing we have to do the job. Thanks.

Paula

Paula I anneal every time. I started with and still currently run a Giraud(pricey yes) but has served me very well and I have zero complaints. I am contemplating a AMP to 100% hone consistency in the annealing realm.

 

[Bc'z]

Paula
I use a cordless drill with socket to fit case head and torch in a dimly lit room.
Aim the inner flame tip at shoulder neck junction.
Count at steady rythm until neck just starts to glow. I dump hot brass into a pie pan, no quenching, never tried to.
Time in flame and point of contact is critical in my eyes.
Rudimentary but it works.
No where near as consistent as a machine, but hey work with what you have.

 

[newbieshooter]

Paula
I use a cordless drill with socket to fit case head and torch in a dimly lit room.
Aim the inner flame tip at shoulder neck junction.
Count at steady rythm until neck just starts to glow. I dump hot brass into a pie pan, no quenching, never tried to.
Time in flame and point of contact is critical in my eyes.
Rudimentary but it works.
No where near as consistent as a machine, but hey work with what you have.

+1

I used a torch + cordless hand drill with a socket (that fit the brass leaving the shoulder/neck exposed) to slowly spin the case. Used some 750 tempilaq to determine the spin time....

 

[Brians356]

Here's how I do it. Inexpensive and effective, but not terribly fast for big batches:

Yet another Annealing Question, but bare with me please!

Ok, Yes I've done my forum search, no I'm not annealing for the need of exceptional accuracy and the desire to anneal before each reload. I'm asking experienced shooters opinions on this: Without the funds of an annealing machine, and without the desire to send my range brass to an annealing...

forum.accurateshooter.com

-

 

[TC260]

Here's a link an article that discusses a few different methods, in particular the low tech "candle method". It was developed by a metallurgist and it's a slow but simple and inexpensive way to extend the life of his brass. https://www.handloadermagazine.com/annealing-rifle-brass

 

[jr600yd]

I use the torch and electric drill method. As others have stated dimly lit room, aim point of flame at neck shoulder junction, develop a cadence.
a 10mm socket fits a 308 case just right (or 243, 260, 06, anything with a 473 case head)
I drop the hot case on a damp towel (doesn’t burn the bench top) dropping in water just gives you wet brass.

 

[TAJ45]

Paula, this is one of the many tendrils of shooting that time, energy and funds can be invested to whatever degree. Unless John is competing on a Regional Level in centerfire, there are more places to invest the time, energy and funds available for a better ROI - return on investment......imho, having been down your road on different occasions.
Tempilac is expensive enough, heat of torch ea time you turn it on, cartridge distance from flame......all are variables. Don't bother for reasons listed above.
Send the cases to me and I will AMP them. Matter of fact, I'll be at Wanda's Tues afternoon. Drop off the victims when convenient and I will pick up and warm them up for you and get them back to you.

Tell her or label "For Tom N from pistol club".
Being at least a bit anal, I will usually allow myself to get lost in the last .001% of accuracy achievement re eqjuipage - instead of working on the 10 and 20% improvement areas. At this time, if I have a load capable of low threes, I will shoot that until I'm matching that consistently then move fwd to the time, energy and $$ consuming finer points, deciding along tbe way the overall cost. That varies from individual to individual as to when the Fun becomes overshadowed by the work.
To each our own. If it ain't FUN, at my age, I seldom do it.

 

[Evan]

I know we have a reloading question area, but I was reading there questions, and suddenly I thought I was back in HS French class, and I hadn't studied. My son got his first reloader (Lee), for his birthday. We were talking about annealing and if he was going to do it. I had a 10 min chemistry class on the properties of brass John said he thought it was a good idea, but couldn't afford an annealer, and wondered if the torch method would work. So guys do you anneal, why or why not, and how do you get an even heat with a torch, the only thing we have to do the job. Thanks.

Paula

I have used an electric drill and socket with a propane torch, like @Bc'z described with reasonable results, but it's tedious and I was unable to derive any significant improvement on target from doing it.

I'd encourage a simpler start for any new reloader. Start with the bare basics and only layer in new/extra processes and steps as you identify the need for them. It would be easy to jump in as a new reloader, trying to do everything that is discussed on this forum: from annealing, to sorting bullets and brass, to uniforming primer pockets, and ending up lost because you don't understand what each additional step actually does or seeing the results on target.

If you keep your brass sorted by number of firings, then annealing your brass is much less important. For example, I have 50rnd boxes of brass and the brass in that box is never mixed with other brass at any point in its lifespan.

 

[HandgunHTR]

a 10mm socket fits a 308 case just right (or 243, 260, 06, anything with a 473 case head)

So that is where all the 10mm sockets get off to!

I only anneal brass that is fireformed into something else, such as my 7TCU brass or my AI brass. For my standard brass, it doesn't get annealed anymore. I used to, but as others have said, it didn't seem to increase the life of the brass or have a significant effect in accuracy of my loads.
I have, however seen an impact with once-fired brass before necking up/down and fireforming for wildcats. I get fewer neck splits/wrinkles and much better results with fireforming if I anneal first.

 

[r bose]

I anneal because brass has gotten so expensive. When I started shooting gas guns 40 years ago 308 and 3006 brass (and ammo for competitions) were given away by the CMP and you'd tossem after 4 or 5 firings. Now with brass a dollar each if not more, it's worth taking care of. Unless you have a custom chamber with custom turned necks that fit perfectly, I'd anneal.

 

[K22]

I'm not going to bash annealing - many use it and swear by it. I can only relate my 50 some years of shooting and reloading experience.

I do not anneal only because I don't want to make my reloading any more complicated than necessary or spend more time processing cases. If you like that sort of thing then by all means go for it. I don't consider reloading a hobby rather for me it's a means to an ends.

I shoot about a 1,000 center fire rifle rounds a year during practical range practice and hunting varmints / predators / deer. This shooting is spread over 14 rifles currently, mostly 223 Rem and 243 Win bolt rifles. I shoot and hunt all year around in quite a range of temperature conditions.

I get about 15 to 17 reloads out of a case. I full size every time with a .001" to .002" shoulder bump. My precision varmint rifles typically shoot in the 1/2 moa range. I control neck tension somewhat with different size expander balls. As long as I can consistently keep my shots in the vitals of the target that I'm using the rifle for a the distances I shoot then I'm satisfied. Thus I haven't found a need to anneal.

 

[JimSC]

Start with a torch and socket. A lot of records that were set before AMP 's were invented 5 years ago are still are still standing. If you want to see him improve make sure he gets a lot of range time. A good CZ 22 with as much mid price ammo you can get is the best shooting and wind teacher there is in my opinion.

In the three years I have been competing I have seen a lot of people drop thousands into equipment then quit when they realize that they won't be getting their high master card in 6 months. I know I am the last man standing out of 15 that were in my long range shooter class. The other 14 shot in local matches for a few months and now their gear is gathering dust.

If your son makes High Master the first year buy him a AMP to celebrate, if he is shooting marksman or Sharpshooter buy him ammo components and barrels, they will help him more than fancy bench toys

 

[D-4297]

Paula , I can only tell you that having followed a lot of your posts concerning John , I think he already falls into the classification of a knowledgeable and proficient shooter for a young man . That being said , if he is going to enter the world of F-class , I would recommend annealing as a normal part of the reloading process . I shoot TR with a .308 , and my round count this last year was near 4,500 . My srp Lapua practice brass ( 350 cases ) has around 18 - 20 reloads . I do keep a separate set of 400 cases for Matches , and slowly rotate them into my practice rounds after 5 or 6 firings , as I lose practice cases due to enlarged primer pockets . . I anneal after every firing , using a Anealeez machine . It is a very popular , and moderately priced unit , that is very consistent , once the learning curve is completed . Might surprise a lot of folks on here how many top shooters are using a Anealeez machine . The AMP is a superior machine , and for the price , it should be . John will learn more about brass prep , and how to improve his brass , while annealing and progressing as a shooter and loader . The world has not changed in fifty years . Short-cuts never taught anyone anything . Ever .

 

[varget204]

I Started w/ a hand torch,got an Annealeez way Faster,More consistant than by hand