To anneal or not to anneal is the ?

[Preacher]

I'm a hunter and anneal ever time for consistency with a AMP...

 

[Dwight]

If you are loading for standard hunting rifles there is not much you can do to make the brass last longer. There is too much space in the neck area so firing a round in a loose chamber makes the neck flex a bunch. Target shooters have tighter necks so the brass does not flex much so it last longer by design. Anneal if it makes you happy but a lot of flex in standard chambers will still split necks after a few firings.

 

[Eraser]

I too am a hunter but will occasionally punch some paper just for fun. I load on a well used old Rock chucker, a RCBS 5-0-5 from the 80's and hand trickle to weight every charge. I started annealing because I could feel pressure differences while seating bullets and was finding more variance in shoulder bump measurements than I thought should be. After annealing my bullet seating effort became more consistent as did the shoulder bump measurements.

I am not a high volume loader so I can't justify the cost of a commercial produced annealing machine so I made a simple set up that works for me.

View attachment 1392716View attachment 1392717

I made something very similar. It works great.

 

[Dave M.]

Alright guys need some experience here. Im going to lay out my process and terget results im just a hunter trying to produce more consistant and available hunting ammo for my family. Im not making big dollar hunts etc just a family oriented lease that kills some meat deer and the occasional nice rack.

I load my hunting rounds on a rock chucker
Dies are just standard dies
Use matching headstamp brass only But not premium brass. Basicaly winchester, federal and hornady depending on caliber

I fl size every time, trim if necessary and chamfer/deburr.

I use a wet tumbler with pins for cleaning.

On my federal brass i get short life which seems to be expected. Im stashing wichester to replace the federal 270wsm as it works itself out.

THE BIG ? Is it worth it for me to anneal brass? If so what is the appropriate process to look at. Ive seen from basic cake pans of water with brass standing and using a torch. All the way to the nice automated options. The main reason im asking is while i normally dont burn through a ton of brass. The times have changed and components are scarce. Should i start annealing to conserve my brass or just keep running to failure and hope i can keep rrplacing them? Will i even make any progress? Seems accros the board federal just fails early. Could i get much more if i annealed it?

If you don’t understand the benefits and/or need to anneal, clearly you likely don’t need to. The benefits of annealing in terms of extended brass life and aiding in consistent bullet release are undisputed.

 

[Gargoyle]

If you don’t understand the benefits and/or need to anneal, clearly you likely don’t need to. The benefits of annealing in terms of extended brass life and aiding in consistent bullet release are undisputed.

I seated 50 bullets into annealed cases tonight. Started on the next batch and the seating force was like WTF? I apparently forgot to anneal that batch a few months back and didn't immediately notice. SO, yeah it makes a difference.

 

[Mike Lum]

I own an AMP and anneal after every firing. As many folks have mentioned there is a big difference in seating pressure and brass springback. It's the type of thing even an hobbyist with a couple hundred rounds of loading experience could feel on the press if they have any mechanical aptitude.

That said, to those that are considering putting a considerable investment into an AMP, your primer pockets will most likely be the fail point of your brass whether you anneal or not.

 

[rebs]

Cartridge brass is a specific brass alloy that has a fairly complex set of grain structure stages. These grain structures are established through various amounts of forming and heat treatments.

The primary cause of case failure is incorrect setup of the resizing dies which results in grain structures that are altered by the forming process. Heat treatment (annealing) does very little to correct these forming errors and is generally of little value to brass that is managed to fit a particular chamber.

The two keys are 1) dies that fit the chamber very well, and 2) carefully setting those dies to move the brass no more than 1 to 3 thousandths of an inch (.001-.003"). Even a few cycles of .005" of forming movement (i.e. resizing) starts to alter the brass grain structure in a way that all the typical annealing methods (torch or electronic) do not repair.

A common error is following the standard manufacture directions for die setup -- "turn the die down to the shellholder, then back off 1/4 turn". Due to all the stacked tolerances in shellholder, die, press, chamber, and cartridge measurements this can result in resizing the brass anywhere from 0 to .015" or more. Missing that .001-.003" window through even two firings will often shorten brass life to 5-10 firings total even with annealing. On the other hand, I have brass that has been fired 200+ times and has never been annealed - always full-length sized to just push the shoulder back 1-1/2 thou.

Another common culprit is the standard resizing die that crunches down the neck, then pulls an expander ball back through it to set the diameter. These two actions usually both violate the .001-.003" movement rule and double up on the forming actions. Switching to bushing style dies and having the small selection of bushings necessary to just pinch the necks enough is a much better investment than an annealing machine.

Annealing has a place. If you are re-forming brass from unknown chambers, or reloading to standard specifications for use in multiple guns, then it makes sense to relieve as much pre-existing grain structure as the annealing process can do. In effect this is what manufacturers are doing through the multiple annealing steps in the manufacturing process.

How do you decide which bushing dies and bushings you need ?

 

[dcali]

How do you decide which bushing dies and bushings you need ?

You can calculate the loaded round neck diameter as 2 x neck thickness + bullet diameter. To get .002" of neck tension (for example), you need to subtract .002 from that diameter, and then another .001 because the brass has some elasticity to it.

For example, if your necks are .014 thick, and you're shooting a .308, your loaded round will be .014 x 2 + .308 = .336. Your bushing need to be .333 to get .002 of tension. Depending on how good you are at measuring necks, you may want to buy one that's a thou bigger and smaller than that just to make sure you have a range to play with.

In my experience, you can neck down quite a bit without ill effect - .007-.008 doesn't seem to create any problems for me. Ideally, you want to keep neck clearance to about .004-.005 (neck chamber diameter - loaded round diameter).

 

[rebs]

You can calculate the loaded round neck diameter as 2 x neck thickness + bullet diameter. To get .002" of neck tension (for example), you need to subtract .002 from that diameter, and then another .001 because the brass has some elasticity to it.

For example, if your necks are .014 thick, and you're shooting a .308, your loaded round will be .014 x 2 + .308 = .336. Your bushing need to be .333 to get .002 of tension. Depending on how good you are at measuring necks, you may want to buy one that's a thou bigger and smaller than that just to make sure you have a range to play with.

In my experience, you can neck down quite a bit without ill effect - .007-.008 doesn't seem to create any problems for me. Ideally, you want to keep neck clearance to about .004-.005 (neck chamber diameter - loaded round diameter).

I am reloading for a 223 Tikka T3x. Thank you for the help

 

[qldreloader]

If you are loading for standard hunting rifles there is not much you can do to make the brass last longer. There is too much space in the neck area so firing a round in a loose chamber makes the neck flex a bunch. Target shooters have tighter necks so the brass does not flex much so it last longer by design. Anneal if it makes you happy but a lot of flex in standard chambers will still split necks after a few firings.

I have several factory rifles which I get case life of 12 or more firings. Calibres include .223, 243 and .308.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

I anneal because it’s a “HOT” topic