another reason to anneal

[Benchrest Braxton]

I don't get it, Dave.

here you go, made it just for you

 

[Gargoyle]

here you go, made it just for you

Welp

 

[Webster]

In your experience dave, should a bullet be able to drop down a once fired piece of brass?

50 years never had a bullet drop into the neck. Chambers cut by one of the best gunsmiths. Seems like a meaningless criteria. Both of my varmint rifles easily shoot under 0.400" with a good bullet.

 

[Gargoyle]

50 years never had a bullet drop into the neck. Chambers cut by one of the best gunsmiths. Seems like a meaningless criteria. Both of my varmint rifles easily shoot under 0.400" with a good bullet.

FIRED brass Webster...I've never done it till tonight. (With caliber size bullets too!

 

[jghoghunter]

Wow! I never realized how hard this was.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Welp

thanks for being such a great contribution. kudos

 

[Gargoyle]

thanks for being such a great contribution. kudos

Well, I thought it was funny.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Well, I thought it was funny.

what cartridge is that btw? looks interesting

 

[Gargoyle]

what cartridge is that btw? looks interesting

9.3X62. 30-06 necked to .366" (With a .284" dropped in it for the video, lol)

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

9.3X62. 30-06 necked to .366" (With a .284" dropped in it for the video, lol)

pretty cool looking, bet its a hammer on game

 

[Webster]

FIRED brass Webster...I've never done it till tonight. (With caliber size bullets too!

Just verified with one case. A slip fit. Not possible to fall in. 1 thou bigger it might have fallen in. I don't worry about small details as long as the rifle shoots small. Why would you want the bullet to fall in if you have not sized it yet to change the dimension? Some people think a bullet base has to reach the bottom of the neck. Who made this up. A 55 gr bullet in my 6BRX is seated about 0.050" into the neck and it shoots .250-.350" groups regularly. Not bad for a hunting rifle.

 

[D-4297]

For the sake of the discussion ; and another country heard from . I shoot TR ; .308 , with a No-turn chamber , and anneal after every firing . A bullet will not drop into a fired case on "New" brass , but it will on brass that has been fired more than six cycles . I only use Lapua SRP brass , and haven't seen any variation in this regardless of Lot number . Just my own experience tracking this to satisfy my own curiosity .

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

For the sake of the discussion ; and another country heard from . I shoot TR ; .308 , with a No-turn chamber , and anneal after every firing . A bullet will not drop into a fired case on "New" brass , but it will on brass that has been fired more than six cycles . I only use Lapua SRP brass , and haven't seen any variation in this regardless of Lot number . Just my own experience tracking this to satisfy my own curiosity .

why do you think that is? do you anneal? do you think your necks are thinning out over time to allow more clearance?

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

For the sake of the discussion ; and another country heard from . I shoot TR ; .308 , with a No-turn chamber , and anneal after every firing . A bullet will not drop into a fired case on "New" brass , but it will on brass that has been fired more than six cycles . I only use Lapua SRP brass , and haven't seen any variation in this regardless of Lot number . Just my own experience tracking this to satisfy my own curiosity .

it was MY understanding that if your bullet does not fall inside a fired piece of brass that you do not have proper neck clearance in the chamber

 

[JimSC]

Only thing I can think of is that the maybe the brass wasn’t annealed from the factory, and then the multiple step down bushing ops probably hardened the crap out of the necks and was getting some aggressive spring back.

you have it backwards in regards to the spring back, no idea why you are getting less springback when annealed. That is 180 out. One way to test your annealing is to take a sized case and pull the bullet measuring the before and afterward. A work hardened case will not spring back less than an annealed case will

from Damon Cali's piece on annealing

The Science of Cartridge Brass Annealing​

Work Hardening
When a cartridge is fired, the thin case neck is exposed to very high pressures. Easily enough to cause the case to expand beyond its ultimate limit and fracture. But the chamber prevents that from happening by limiting the amount of expansion that can occur. In other words, the neck expands until it hits the chamber wall. At that point, there is no more space to expand into. This keeps the case neck from failing. When the pressure drops, the case springs back. But even though the case is protected from ultimate failure by the chamber wall, the brass is still exposed to very high forces, and will undergo slight plastic deformation - you can't have that much pressure in the case without moving a little metal. When brass is allowed to plastically deform, it work hardens. The more you "work" it, the more it hardens. Remember, hardness means yield strength.

edited to fix link

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

you have it backwards in regards to the spring back, no idea why you are getting less springback when annealed. That is 180 out. One way to test your annealing is to take a sized case and pull the bullet measuring the before and afterward. A work hardened case will not spring back less than an annealed case will

from Damon Cali's piece on annealing

The Science of Cartridge Brass Annealing​

edited to fix link

from my understanding, everything I have read says that annealing reduces spring back. even the author from your article you cited says that annealing reduces spring back…….




and from what I posted in this thread, proves it even further. so maybe you have it backwards?

 

[JimSC]

and from what I posted in this thread, proves it even further. so maybe you have it backwards?

yep I had it backwards, thanks for my learning something new today

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Curiosity got the best of me.

 

[RegionRat]

Lou is not wrong.

(BTW, Lou is one of the nicest and most generous guys you will meet. He is always willing to help a rookie and I hope we don't take him out of context. He is also one of the most experienced guys in the game, so keep that in mind too. Some folks on here are as good and better than he is, but most are not.)

What folks are doing here is jumping out of context with the neck clearance context.

Not all chambers are fit for all purposes.

So, sometimes this drop a bullet back into a fired case is a bad sign, but, someone could also come up with a context where a tight neck chamber doesn't do it and run off with that as a general answer.

At time, we are discussing SAAMI necks, at others we are into custom tight necks.

Let us all be clear when we are in which context or this forum will start smelling like SH and break down into ego battles rather than be constructive.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Lou is not wrong.

(BTW, Lou is one of the nicest and most generous guys you will meet. He is always willing to help a rookie and I hope we don't take him out of context. He is also one of the most experienced guys in the game, so keep that in mind too. Some folks on here are as good and better than he is, but most are not.)

What folks are doing here is jumping out of context with the neck clearance context.

Not all chambers are fit for all purposes.

So, sometimes this drop a bullet back into a fired case is a bad sign, but, someone could also come up with a context where a tight neck chamber doesn't do it and run off with that as a general answer.

At time, we are discussing SAAMI necks, at others we are into custom tight necks.

Let us all be clear when we are in which context or this forum will start smelling like SH and break down into ego battles rather than be constructive.

I understand a tight neck chamber, but hence why you also need to then neck turn your brass for proper clearance for good bullet release (obviously)

if you cannot slide a bullet into a once fired case, is an indicator of improper bullet release, which tells me its either a physical (too thick neck) of mechanical (too hard / too much springback) issue.

im just looking for a good, intelligent, open discussion on this. I am not saying I am right by any means, but from my understanding of reading forums over the years it was my understanding that you should be able to have a bullet fall into your once fired brass (sufficient neck clearance).

it is obvious to me now that this is not understood/not as big of an issue as i once thought it was, because it seems many people are getting away with it with no severely ill effects.

but if Lou says you should, this tells me that people may be possibly leaving some untapped precision on the table that they did not consider/know about???

to me, having a bullet drop into fired brass is your indicator of proper bullet release and neck clearance. besides doing this, what other indicator would you even use to tell you if you are having proper bullet release?

so to sum it up, we all agree that good bullet release is important, besides doing this test on fired brass, what other metric would you use to ensure you are getting proper bullet release?

that other metric would be consistent real world results on target testing zero clearance to enough clearance to drop a bullet freely into a fired piece of brass.

thats alot of testing, guess who has probably done that much testing, lou murdica has.