Time to make the donuts....

[JoeDuke]

so will dish washing liquid and water

just soak? No scrubbing involved?

 

[brcman]

After reading George's post, I'm thinking the easiest way would be to unroll the wire but leave it in loose coils and put on the top shelf of the dishwasher with normal dish soap and push the start button?

Wayne

 

[CJ6]

That's a LOT of weight for a top drawer of a dishwasher.

 

[AlNyhus]

Years ago I had a section of core wire on a new roll that was a bit 'oxi-dusty' for some reason. I cut it into 24" lengths, put them in a wall paper water tray and covered them with Simple Green Concentrate and water diluted 4:1. The next day they were nice and clean.

I like the dishwasher idea. Wayne's probably got a helluva dishwasher.

 

[brcman]

CJ6- you may be correct- but I have seen with my own eyes a big block Chevy head (cast iron) on the bottom shelf in a dish washer for a cleaning!

 

[CJ6]

Bottom maybe....Top probably not.

 

[liseo]

G´day

Starting to test a new (for me) set of dies. Boat tail core seating with Blackmon die and point up with Simonson dies. With less pressure on the core seating, the diameter just after leaving the die is .2242" and the boat tail (heel) has more rounded edges. With more pressure, the diameter is .2243" and the edges (heel) are flatter. I understand that I should test and see which one is better, but what would be the first option for you, more experienced ones?

Tks

 

[jackieschmidt]

The main thing is to make sure that the jacket is 100% filled with the core. The one with the rounded corners might not be.
Randy Robinette gave me the best way to determine the core seat.
Measure the length of the jackets, seat a core in one that you are sure is a little loose, but did expand. It should be shorter.

Then keep adding a little cores pressure until you detect around .002 growth in length. That means the course has filled the jacket completely, and since the die walls keep it from growing anymore, it will start to get a little longer in length. Do not over do as I did, for a while. Randy set be straight.

At that point, the bullet jacket should have a certain feel coming out of the die.

Not to question your effort too much, but you mentioned your core die and point up die are made by two different manufacturers. A core seat die and a point up die should be a matched set.

 

[liseo]

Thats good for a flat base but not really going to work for a boattail

As I have the die to make a flat base too, perhaps I can use this method in which the jacket stretches and replicate it with the same pressure in the core seat operation of the boat tail bullet.

 

[JoeDuke]

Liseo, No because you are stretching the boattail before you stretch the jacket...Looking at your picture the one on the left is better but not quite seated hard enough yet...

George, how do you tell when you have seated the boattail core hard enough? When you have "stretched" the jacket enough. It seems measurable with a flatbase. But when is enough "enough" on a boattail?
Thanks for your expertise.

 

[slwslw]

Joe, I generally judge the corner radius, bleedby, and diameter. if I get a stretch mark at the lead line its to much. I am also a big fan of cutting open a bullet length ways to see how the core looks when seated. If theres a problem thats where you will find it. I also use a bullet spinner to check runout of the seated core. it usually works out when they are spinning true they are seated correctly...

George, when you say “stretch mark” is that any line showing around the outside of the jacket? I usually seat the core until I see a faint thin line, a little bleed by, and a slight taper .243.05 at boat tail and .243.10 at the lead line. What can I use to spin the core seated bullet to check run out?

 

[JoeDuke]

Joe, I generally judge the corner radius, bleedby, and diameter. if I get a stretch mark at the lead line its to much. I am also a big fan of cutting open a bullet length ways to see how the core looks when seated. If theres a problem thats where you will find it. I also use a bullet spinner to check runout of the seated core. it usually works out when they are spinning true they are seated correctly...

Thank you George. As usual, you give excellent advice. This string has more practical advice and knowledge than any other I have followed. And i believe i have read all the bullet making threads.

 

[Mulligan]

Thank you George. As usual, you give excellent advice. This string has more practical advice and knowledge than any other I have followed. And i believe i have read all the bullet making threads.

^^^^truth^^^^^
CW

 

[RGRobinett]

The best path for BT is to preform both the jacket and the core: this results in punch fit/selection & seating/bleed-by results very similar to making FB.
Poor quality, however, this pic displays the heel-radius variety due to seating without and with prefromed materials. The preformed are easy to spot: squarer is better - especially regarding BC uniformity . . . 'ball-tail' bleeds performance.
RG

 

[AlNyhus]

Randy's jacket stretch guideline is one of the biggest nuggets of gold in this thread. I encourage anyone making their own bullets to also use cutaways as you get familiar with your core seating pressure. This is a raggedy-azzed Dremel job but the info is there as to how the core fits the jacket. You'll be surprised at the internal appearance of the pleats, too.

 

[ridgeway]

The best path for BT is to preform both the jacket and the core: this results in punch fit/selection & seating/bleed-by results very similar to making FB.
Poor quality, however, this pic displays the heel-radius variety due to seating without and with prefromed materials. The preformed are easy to spot: squarer is better - especially regarding BC uniformity . . . 'ball-tail' bleeds performance.
RG View attachment 1672779
View attachment 1672780

Randy or George, can you explain the preforming process? I am taking a guess here, but is the core seat die(obviously no core) used with a special punch? Lubed?

 

[liseo]

Is there a rule of thumb on how much lead you should fill your jacket with to get maximum accuracy?
I cutaway a few to give you an idea, comparing them to Sierra and Berger.

***Sorry for the quality of the photo

1-155,5 grains ogive 7 J4 jacket 1.150"
2-155,5 grains ogive 13 J4 jacket 1.200"
3-175 grains ogive 13 J4 jacket 1.300"
4-200 grains ogive 13 J4 jacket 1.400"
5-185 grains 0give 13 J4 jacket 1.300"
6- 185 grains Berger juggernaut
7-175 grains ogive 7 Sierra jacket 1.220"
8- 168 grains ogive 7 J4 jacket 1.200"
9-168 grains ogive 13 J4 jacket 1.200 "
10-175 grains ogive J4 jacket 1.200"
11- 175 grains ogive 7 J4 Jacket 1.300"
12- Sierra 168 grains MK

 

[ridgeway]

Great info here!! Now, if one would preform the BT, will the core need preformed with BT geometry?

 

[Kiwishooter]

it can be but not really, either way the forde is greatly reduced during core seating because you are not stretching the jacket. we are talking about long range not short range

Thanks George, the nugget I got from the above

Has anyone tried this is short range?

 

[RGRobinett]

Whether point-blank, or, LR, preforming both jackets and cores will produce the most uniform bullets your dies can make. The jackets are formed in the core-seat die, using a punch taper 'close' to the BT angle - here, exact is not necessary.

The concept is to obtain fluid dynamics very similar to when seating FB cores. When the core is used to form the BT, the [core] face must move forward to accommodate the reduced volume in the BT - considering jacket-wall taper, this dynamic makes punch 'fitting' more problematic: lead will be flowing around the punch prior to filling out all of the die cavity . . .

Whether near, or, far, uniformity rules. RG