Thurro clean every time?

[Steve Donlon]

When I first responded to this question I thought I needed it for the bullets I was using, Hornady 75 gr. 223 bullets in my AR15. But I have been using Sierra 77 gr. and 69 gr. bullets and I have much less copper fouling. I don't know if my barrel is smoother now or the Hornady bullets have softer jackets. But now I have not had a problem with copper fouling, just use CR10 in a couple of patches and it's gone. The barrel is a chrome lined DD 18" barrel that has always looked smooth with no deep scratches. I also don't let the barrel get hot. The AR rifles are the only ones I have needed an abrasive.

 

[jelenko]

I’m with you, I love it and I personally think it’s the greatest cleaner available for my use. I use it every time I shoot my rifles and I use it to take them back to bare metal. Whether I’m practicing, doing load development or after an F Class match. If I shoot them 5 times testing or 80 times in a match TC is going down my barrels on a losso nylon brush a couple calibers oversized. That takes care of the carbon ring during the cleaning and I hardly ever have to readdress it after the barrel is back to bare metal. I check with a bore scope after each secession to see when it’s clean. It saves me so much time and my time is fairly limited. I’m not shooting.01’s or .02’s I’m just shooting midrange F class matches and my barrels are still good enough to shoot clean targets. I understand it’s abrasive. But I also understand when accuracy falls off I’ll replace the barrel. All my hunting rifles gets cleaned every time I shoot them with it as well, so does the rifles I plink with. I use it and I love it. I have a stock pile of it. If it works for you use it. Everyone has different needs. My needs are to clean my rifles in a few minutes and spend more time with my family. And Thorough Clean makes that happen for my application. It might not fit the needs of others and I’m okay with that too. I can clean my rifles after a match in less time than it was taking me to let patch out and accelerator soak for the first application. If it takes 100-150 shots off of the life of my barrels I’ll gladly give that up for the time it saves me. But contrary to what everyone is telling me…. With my rifles…. And with my cleaning process…. I’ve not seen it over multiple barrels. Maybe others have. It won me over after the first 15 strokes and looking with my bore scope.

You're using Thorroclean on a brush?
Do you try to clean the brush after each cleaning?

 

[Hoekight]

You're using Thorroclean on a brush?
Do you try to clean the brush after each cleaning?

I do clean the brush after each cleaning.

 

[Hoekight]

You're using Thorroclean on a brush?
Do you try to clean the brush after each cleaning?

The last thing i do is put just a little bit of birch wood Casey 3 in 1 on my brush while still in the bore guide when im done with the TC. I’m not using the birch Casey to clean the gun it’s simply to make the patching clean process faster and loosen the TC on the brush. Stroke it about 3 times and that loosens up the TC to patch out easier from the barrel and it makes the brush where you can clean it out very easy. Once again it’s what works for me.

 

[Rick300]

My understanding is that Thorroclean is just Iosso in solution.

You should call the mfr. like I did. Yes it's made by them but that doesn't mean it's the same product.

 

[coldboreshot]

I dont think some of you are following what I said. I said to find touch on a clean barrel, before you use your abrasive. Then find it again after you use your abrasive. If your moving the touch point every time you clean your barrel, on top of its natural erosion your shortening your barrels accuracy life. Not by a little either. Maintaining a sharp throat is important when your after 0 and 1s. Thats why a set back restores accuracy, the throat is sharp again, its not because you cut out bad rifling. So use your brushes and solvents until they no longer get the carbon out. Then use your abrasive, and keep it in front of the lead. The lead is not where the carbon builds up so dont pull the patch back that far every stroke. Just work the area with the carbon.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If I could click the "Like" tab twice, I would.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I think borescopes have led to an excessive squeaky clean mentality. A lot more conjecture than facts.Go to any match and rank the shooters, let's say there are 30. Take number one and number nine, make them switch guns and loads. I'll bet the house on the #1 with the #9 equipment.

 

[jelenko]

You should call the mfr. like I did. Yes it's made by them but that doesn't mean it's the same product.

Good idea.
I just sent an email.

 

[rlporter507]

It seems that every shooter has their own cleaning regimen. If you’ve seen one, you’ve seen exactly that . One. No consensus.

i dont try for a perfect new clean barrel shooting XTC, but use bore tech solvents to get the fouling out. as the barrel ages, then i use the abrasive cleaners not just to get it clean, but to get what has built up that the solvents are not getting, and to smooth the fire cracking. I think this is a good use of the abrasives to smooth the roughness. after about 1k rounds, the abrasives are used about every 200 rds. I have noticed how easy a patch slides through the bore after using the thoroocleanor or JB. the iosso paste will get it to new clean. as mentioned before, XTC is 1/2 min.

 

[Turkeytider]

I think borescopes have led to an excessive squeaky clean mentality. A lot more conjecture than facts.Go to any match and rank the shooters, let's say there are 30. Take number one and number nine, make them switch guns and loads. I'll bet the house on the #1 with the #9 equipment.

They definitely need to be used with a certain frame of mind.

 

[jelenko]

So, the response from Iosso is they use the same abrasive in Iosso and Thorroclean.

Here's their response:

Thank you for your message. The Iosso Bore Cleaner and the Thorroclean have the same abrasive. We make it for them. They are both safe to use in the bore and will not remove metal or wear down the lands and grooves of the bore. Please let me know if you have any further questions.​

 

[BuffaloBill]

Is it possible for an abrasive to remove carbon but not metal?

 

[Turkeytider]

So, the response from Iosso is they use the same abrasive in Iosso and Thorroclean.

Here's their response:

Thank you for your message. The Iosso Bore Cleaner and the Thorroclean have the same abrasive. We make it for them. They are both safe to use in the bore and will not remove metal or wear down the lands and grooves of the bore. Please let me know if you have any further questions.​

This is going to sound more aggressive than I really intend, but I’m not sure I totally believe that, particularly if they are used regularly. Just one guy’s opinion.
And in no way am I trying to intimate that I think that there’s not a time and a place for abrasives.

 

[jelenko]

Is it possible for an abrasive to remove carbon but not metal?

The question is how much?
A fellow forum member tested Iosso. Put lots on a large patch and and spun a stainless steel rod in it at 720 rpm for 10 seconds, added more Iosso and did it again. There was no change in diameter down to 1/10,000.
That said, a top gunsmith mentioned that using Iosso/etc on the sharp leading edges of the lands would does remove enough to change the 'touch point' of a given bullet. But, I've send some top benchrest shooters say they use an abrasive every X rounds.

My take is it depends on your accuracy needs.
For what I do, 3/4 MOA or less is great [we prefer 1/2 MOA, but 3/4 MOA works on our 1 MOA X rings/2 MOA 10 rings].
I've been cleaning with 1 stroke with Flitz [as far as I can tell it works a bit better than Iosso] for every shot taken. My 223 barrel maintain the needed accuracy the same length [given that it's actually a range from ~ 3000 - 3600, depending on the specific barrel]

 

[gmr4]

Montana Extreme Copper Killer and a bronze brush after first patching 2-3 times with soaked patch.. 40 strokes… patch out and take a look with bore scope… do it another time 40 strokes patch out.. if there is still alot of carbon then stroke 20 or so times with free-all and let it sit awhile… that gets most of it… I use 99% alcohol to make sure everything is out… PRCW after every 80-100 rounds F Class… it remains a little streaky with carbon but I’ve found it takes way fewer fowlers to bring it to speed. I’ve shot 4900 round and gone through a barrel or two this year and arrived here… 98% in 10 ring

 

[EEP]

I changed my cleaning regimen after Thorroclean came out and I thought I loved it as it brought my barrels back to sparkling clean so much easier…. I found out that came with a price and what sparkles isn’t always gold. After Thorroclean it was taking 5-10 rounds for most my barrels to level out in velocity and start getting the results on target I was after. I’ve changed my cleaning regimen back to Boretech Eliminator patches and nylon brushes with better success on target and like Alex says less wear on my barrel. My barrel doesn’t look as clean but I have no trouble getting it back to the same place that shoots after 2-3 rounds fired. Granted I know all barrels are different but I think generally speaking this has been my experience and I will keep the Thorroclean on the shelf for when I really need a reset with a clean barrel.

 

[Owens85]

I changed my cleaning regimen after Thorroclean came out and I thought I loved it as it brought my barrels back to sparkling clean so much easier…. I found out that came with a price and what sparkles isn’t always gold. After Thorroclean it was taking 5-10 rounds for most my barrels to level out in velocity and start getting the results on target I was after. I’ve changed my cleaning regimen back to Boretech Eliminator patches and nylon brushes with better success on target and like Alex says less wear on my barrel. My barrel doesn’t look as clean but I have no trouble getting it back to the same place that shoots after 2-3 rounds fired. Granted I know all barrels are different but I think generally speaking this has been my experience and I will keep the Thorroclean on the shelf for when I really need a reset with a clean barrel.

This is exactly what Ive seen as well!!! I also use boretech on the regular and TC very seldom.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Just an observation as the last week I have been changing powder in my 6bra. I clean with an abrasive and have payed attention to how many shots to get back to my POA. To my surprise, 1. My normal routine is to shoot 2 in the bank before going on target minimum, often 3. The last 4 trips the first shot I put on paper was at 11:00 About 5/8 of an inch. Those 4 targets put together would have been a group in the ones just not at the right spot.The second shot all 4 times was good to go. I am pretty anal on cleaning out all trace of the abrasive.

 

[swd]

I use Bore Tech and SeaFoam after every days match and Thorroclean after every 2-3 match's. F Open and some BR. My barrels are back shooting in 3-5 rounds.

 

[fatelvis]

I use Bore Tech and SeaFoam after every days match and Thorroclean after every 2-3 match's. F Open and some BR. My barrels are back shooting in 3-5 rounds.

Sea Foam, like the gas additive? Does that remove carbon well or something?