Silly cleaning question

[jesilva]

Starting with a perfectly clean barrel, shoot as many shots as you want. Begin the cleaning process. First, clean the carbon and then the copper and call it done. Right?

But why do you not have to clean carbon, clean copper, clean carbon, clean copper, etc. for every shot you made through the barrel. Isn't that the way they are deposited when you shoot?

Just asking

 

[K22]

Assume we are talking about center fire rifles shooting jacketed bullets.

Because most rifles shoot more consistently once the barrel is slightly fouled, i.e. 1 to 3 shots. Also, most of my rifles will hold their accuracy for at least to 50 rounds. However I normally clean ever 25 to 30 round to prevent excessive carbon and copper build up.

Yes, the idea is to remove both carbon and copper. There are single solvents that claim to do both and there are solvents targeted specifically for carbon vs. copper. I use a single solvent that works well enough, i.e. Shooters Choice. It is my opinion that the most effective manner to manage carbon is to use a bronze brush since produces mechanical action along with the chemical action of the solvent. For copper removal, nylon brushes are best so that you can avoid false positives from the action of the copper solvent on the bronze brushes.

 

[jesilva]

The point is that with each shot, copper is put down and then carbon is put down. The process is repeated as each shot is fired. However, when cleaning, the process is to remove carbon and then copper. Not carbon, copper, carbon, copper, etc.

 

[msinc]

The point is that with each shot, copper is put down and then carbon is put down. The process is repeated as each shot is fired. However, when cleaning, the process is to remove carbon and then copper. Not carbon, copper, carbon, copper, etc.

I get what you are asking and have pondered the same thing, but when I clean I see something different. I have a borescope and have tried to watch what is happening when I clean. What I see is that I am able to pretty quickly get the barrel to where there is nothing left but copper and the steel of the bore. Just like you say, carbon out and then copper. That last remaining copper that is directly on the bore itself can be tough to get out, especially if the bore is not broken in. I believe that copper must not stick to carbon as much or as bad as it can to steel. This seems to be supported by the fact that you get a lot more resistance when pulling bullets out of sts cleaned brass or brand new brass cases then you do reloads whose necks were not cleaned to bare brass. Carbon in the neck of a case seems to let the bullet move easier. It should do the same thing in the bore.

 

[LHSmith]

Starting with a perfectly clean barrel, shoot as many shots as you want. Begin the cleaning process. First, clean the carbon and then the copper and call it done. Right?

But why do you not have to clean carbon, clean copper, clean carbon, clean copper, etc. for every shot you made through the barrel. Isn't that the way they are deposited when you shoot?

Just asking

First of all, if shooting from a "perfectly clean" barrel means dry, no wetting agent like oil or bore cleaner- you are inviting copper to lay down in the bore.
In answer to the last part of the question- that is why bronze bore brushes are made- to cut through layers of fouling. IME, brushing with a good bore solvent (that is fresh and protected from light) works every time. Some cleaners may do that without brushing- but they take time to work for full effectiveness. Sometimes, like in a match, time is critical, so I rely on what has worked well for me in the past. I believe there is validity in the concern about introducing a multitude of different cleaning agents to the bore causing an interaction that can be harmful. I am in the "if it ain't broke -don't fix it" camp.

 

[Joe Salt]

I've noticed that the first thing anyone does is start cleaning the barrel. First thing I worry about is getting the chamber clean before I shove the bore guide in. What do you think you do to the chamber every time you shove a nice clean bore guide, into that carbon. Clean the chamber first then work on the barrel. I use Montana 50 BMG then Sweets after I get the carbon out, then I put Kroil in for lube.

Joe Salt

 

[BoydAllen]

There are a couple of things that need to be known up front when discussing bore cleaning. First of all, are we talking about a top quality lapped barrel, or something less? Secondly, we need to have some idea of the nature of the propellant and quantity being burned. I do most of my shooting with quality barrels that have been broken in so that they have very little copper in them when they get to the point where powder fouling starts to have an effect on their accuracy, and that effect is only relative to a certain level of accuracy. For something like varmint work, the standard would be slightly lower. The caliber that I shoot the most, is 6PPC and the powder that I have the most experience with in that caliber is VV 133, which has to be the cleanest burning rifle powder that I have ever shot. Cleaning frequency usually runs about every 25-30 rounds, but I have gone to higher totals without noticeable reduction of accuracy. This varies from barrel to barrel. I have the use of a bore scope, which is necessary if one is going to do more than guess about cleaning effectiveness. For this powder in this caliber, in the type of barrel that I shoot, Butch's Bore shine, cotton patches, and bronze brushes will do a perfect job of cleaning. I short stroke with a patch that does not fit too tightly for perhaps 3-4 patches, then I wet a brush and do about 20 cycles, taking care with my rod handling, and using an excellent guide that has an inner tube that stays on the rod. After I finish brushing, I run a couple of wet patches, and then I let it sit for 15 minutes or so. At that point I run another wet patch and look at it for signs as to the cleanliness of the barrel. If I get more color than I would from the jag, I let it soak again, test again, and so on. Most of the time, I do not have to do the additional soaking. Form time to time I check my work with a bore scope. If I am using a powder that has hard carbon issues, I will use IOSSO in the back of the barrel, on a nylon brush every hundred rounds or so. If you do not have access to a bore scope, you are just guessing.

 

[sofarfrome]

With all due respect. This is what I would call "over thinking" a perceived problem.

Ask your barrel maker what they recommend. Short of that, buy Tony Boyer's book about extreme rifle accuracy and follow his regimen. You can choose other solvents etc. but follow in his process. It works. The last dozen barrels I have I used his break in procedure and his cleaning method and can say it works great, for me. I have used different solutions/solvents and essentially ended up with the same results. One step he uses that truly makes sense to me is the last patch you should run through the bore is one soaked with Kroil or Marvel Mystery Oil. A slim layer of one of these penetrating oils helps reduce fouling and subsequent cleaning "strokes" with a brush or patch. I am not saying Tony's process is the end-all or cure-all but it does seem to work. Do a simple search and you will find 50 different procedures. And it does vary from one discipline to another.

 

[jesilva]

To all those who responded, thanks. However, the point was not about any particular cleaning regimen or whether factory or custom barrel. Just the hypothesis that with each shot carbon is deposited on top of copper and cleaning regimens call for removing carbon then copper. In theory that would only remove the deposits from the last shot and would have to be repeated as many times as the number of shots taken.

 

[BoydAllen]

OK, here is the short answer. The method that you proposed is not needed. I have seen the results of conventional cleaning with a bore scope...many times. Your hypothesis is incorrect. Do you have a bore scope? If you do not, you are guessing.

 

[jesilva]

It was just a question to ponder.