Thrown powder Vs Weighed charges

[wvlongshot]

At what distance do most shooters make the switch? Short range use mostly powder measure method, long range weight it to the very kernel if possible. Do the Ubr shooters do something different?

 

[Shooter13]

I've done both, this past weekend I used a chargemaster and double checked on a beam scale (about every 10 or 20 loads), shot my highest score at 200 yard ever in very bad wind and mirage. Did it help? I don't know but will try it again this coming week. This was UBR Nationals at 100 and 200 yards

 

[fantastic]

I think it has to do with the powder measure . To just say Federal throws there charges so anyone with any powder measure should be gtg is a stretch imho . I have and use a Hornady powder measure and imo it sucks . When i throw IMR 4046 i get as much as a .7gr variance . Anything more the .3 in 308 is to much imo although I've not run any specific test . I have done enough load developements with 4064 to know .5gr has an effect on accuracy with my Savage model 10. Im actually looking to buy a better powder measure that will throw 4064 and the like better .

 

[watercam]

No manual powder measure will keep IMR4064 (or any other stick powder) within your criteria. The kernals are simply too long. Throw short charges and use a trickler to bring your charge to the exact amount you are looking for. OR switch to a spherical powder that works for you.

 

[lawman29]

Shotgun and revolver throw; rifle weigh.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Do you trickle up and say good to go and if you go over do you take granules out or do you start over? Does powder placement in the pan give different weights?

 

[corning]

I use 4064 for long range sling shooting in a .308. I drop lite, and trickle up to the weight I want. I have a Sartorius scale that is reputed to be accurate to .02 grains. I will trickle up to be +/- .02 grains. I also randomly spot weigh my loaded ammo. I have found that the completed rounds will vary by a total of 1 grain. I attribute that variance to variations in component weights. Do I care? No. My loaded ammo holds good elevation out to 1000 yards. I just can not shoot worth a #$%^ anymore.

When I shot high power across the course (decades ago), I used IMR 3031 in a .308. I weighed every load for that too.

 

[Park ranger]

Nice ball powder can be thrown at 600 yard sling shooting.

 

[birdog]

I use 4064 for long range sling shooting in a .308. I drop lite, and trickle up to the weight I want. I have a Sartorius scale that is reputed to be accurate to .02 grains. I will trickle up to be +/- .02 grains. I also randomly spot weigh my loaded ammo. I have found that the completed rounds will vary by a total of 1 grain. I attribute that variance to variations in component weights. Do I care? No. My loaded ammo holds good elevation out to 1000 yards. I just can not shoot worth a #$%^ anymore.

When I shot high power across the course (decades ago), I used IMR 3031 in a .308. I weighed every load for that too.

I use H-380 in a 308. It meters perfectly through a powder thrower and is the most accurate powder I tried in 308. Federal Gold Cup Match appears to be H-380 and when I weighed Federal charge it was the same weight I was using. Federal will not give you the load, stating that is is a proprietary mix of powders.

 

[WayneShaw]

H380 is an awesome powder, often overlooked.

 

[JMayo]

I weigh everything UBR, benchrest ...

 

[wvlongshot]

Thanks for the replies. I was thinking about buying a harrels powder measure for some short range stuff is the reason for the question. I'm going to just keep on weighing everything.

 

[Shooter13]

Thanks for the replies. I was thinking about buying a harrels powder measure for some short range stuff is the reason for the question. I'm going to just keep on weighing everything.

I have the Harrells and it does a pretty good job, like I said I just weighted out 143 round for this weekend and will try to update, I worked with the Harrells for about 20 minutes last night and was able to throw several 34.8 gn loads several times (my target load) in a row then would throw a 35.0 and then a 34.7 and really for short range that probably would work, I have another match in 2 weeks and I'll throw those and update you on the results including wind and weather.

 

[golong]

I weigh everything other than pistol. With that said, I know of several successful LR shooters that throw charges and dump them in the case. For them it really comes down to does their powder/powder measure combo throw a charge that they believe is consistent enough for single digit SD's.

 

[GSS]

I'm primarily a Full Course ( 200 / 300 / 600 yards ) 20" .223 Service Rifle shooter. 59 years old using the max legal 4.5 power (<$400) scope
Also enjoy occasional 300/500/600 and 3 x 600 Mid Range Prone matches from time to time.

All my 200 yard standing / offhand slowfire ammo, my 200 yard sitting rapid ammo and all my 300 yard rapid prone ammo is loaded progressively on a Hornady LNL using AR Comp for Powder. Hornady Powder measure works very well with probably 90% of checked charges within 0.1gr with an occasional 0.2 and rare 0.3 from desired charge weight. More than good enough for use at those yardages from standing unsupported or rapid stages shooting from a sling.

IMO, for the 200 and 300 yard stages it is probably 95% shooter skill and 5% ammo quality to keep shots in the 10 and X tings on this targets.

For my 600 yard loads for important matches I weight sort my brass into 1.0 grain max spread and trickle my charge up so that they are all the same to the 0.1gr which is the finest the resolution on my scale goes. For 20 shot strings the E-Target shows I am getting velocity SD's around 10 - 14fps.

I have tested progressive loading my 600 yard ammo a few times and with Service Rifle it is still primarily a shooter skill contest more than an ammo loading contest and some days I can do better or worse with ammo loaded either way. All in all I would say there are a few more X's and a few less dropped points with the ammo that was given more care in loading but it would be hard to prove statistically / reliably.

For me,
I like shooting matches and the challenge of working to improve my positions and shot execution with basic stock car like equipment to minimize dropped points more than tinkering at the loading bench or buying high dollar equipment or accessories
.

My best to date 600 yard prone is in the pic below. ( $200 Wilson WOA 1x7 barrel and Hornady AMAX 80's over RL15 back then )
I was stupid slightly heavy on the trigger on shot 8 like I typically do at least once during a 20 shot string out in the elements and called the 4 o clock 9 the second I broke it. I had called shot 2 high as well but I got lucky and still caught the 10 ring on that one... I have plenty of 199's but Still Chasing the 600 yard clean after all these years and enjoying every match trying.

I'm saving F / FTR for when I get too old or physically unable to shoot Service Rifle XTC any more
George

PS:
Kudos to the crew at Bridgeville De. Great range and they run a great match.
I traveled down from New Hampshire for this match just to try out the HEX targets.

 

[r bose]

I'm primarily a Full Course ( 200 / 300 / 600 yards ) 20" .223 Service Rifle shooter. 59 years old using the max legal (<$400) 4.5 power scope
Also enjoy occasional 300/500/600 and 3 x 600 Mid Range Prone matches from time to time.

All my 200 yard standing / offhand slowfire ammo, my 200 yard sitting rapid ammo and all my 300 yard rapid prone ammo is loaded progressively on a Hornady LNL using AR Comp for Powder. Hornady Powder measure works very well with probably 90% of checked charges within 0.1gr with an occasional 0.2 and rare 0.3 from desired charge weight. More than good enough for use at those yardages from standing unsupported or rapid stages shooting from a sling.

IMO, for the 200 and 300 yard stages it is probably 95% shooter skill and 5% ammo quality to keep shots in the 10 and X tings on this targets.

For my 600 yard loads for important matches I weight sort my brass into 1.0 grain max spread and trickle my charge up so that they are all the same to the 0.1gr which is the finest the resolution on my scale goes. For 20 shot strings the E-Target shows I am getting velocity SD's around 10 - 14fps.

I have tested progressive loading my 600 yard ammo a few times and with Service Rifle it is still primarily a shooter skill contest more than an ammo loading contest and some days I can do better or worse with ammo loaded either way. All in all I would say there are a few more X's and a few less dropped points with the ammo that was given more care in loading but it would be hard to prove statistically / reliably.

For me,
I like shooting matches and the challenge of working to improve my positions and shot execution with basic stock car like equipment to minimize dropped points more than tinkering at the loading bench or buying high dollar equipment or accessories
.

My best to date 600 yard prone is in the pic below. ( $200 Wilson WOA 1x7 barrel and Hornady AMAX 80's over RL15 back then )
I was stupid slightly heavy on the trigger on shot 8 like I typically do at least once during a 20 shot string out in the elements and called the 4 o clock 9 the second I broke it. I had called shot 2 high as well but I got lucky and still caught the 10 ring on that one... I have plenty of 199's but Still Chasing the 600 yard clean after all these years and enjoying every match trying.

I'm saving F / FTR for when I get too old or physically unable to shoot Service Rifle XTC any more
George

PS:
Kudos to the crew at Bridgeville De. Great range and they run a great match.
I traveled down from New Hampshire for this match just to try out the HEX targets.

Nice group above!!!! Like some have said it depends on the powder. Shooting XTC I throw everything because I'm using either TAC or 2000MR. You'd be amazed how accurately a cheapo thrower can manage these powders.

 

[garandman]

Thrown - pistol / 300 BLK

Weighed - precision rifle.

That's my answer any way....

 

[ACF]

With all the steps taken to make accurate reloads, why would one just throw a powder charge and not weight it????????

Chris

 

[GSS]

With all the steps taken to make accurate reloads, why would one just throw a powder charge and not weight it????????

Chris

I would say different needs for different factions.

When I was working to leg out ( service rifle distinguished badge # 1970 ) back in 2007 - 2009 I was loading and shooting around 6000 rounds per year to shoot in practice and matches.

If I had of weighed all those charges I would still be at the reloading bench and would have never legged out.

But service rifle is 90% marksmanship / skill contest so that is a whole different ball game than benchrest in all it's current forms where ammo and equipment are much more critical to shoot a the top of the class.

My next stop as I age into my late 60's in 10 years will likely be "belly benchrest" where i will weigh every load but will never shoot anywhere near 6000 round a season.

 

[GSS]

Nice group above!!!! Like some have said it depends on the powder. Shooting XTC I throw everything because I'm using either TAC or 2000MR. You'd be amazed how accurately a cheapo thrower can manage these powders.

Thank you

It is very satisfying to shoot that many X's and only drop one point from 600 yards with a 20" barrel AR15 Service rifle with 4x scope shot unsupported using a sling.

I will get that 200 clean at 600 with service rifle AT Least Once,, before I convert to any other rifle platform or dicipline